Northern Virginia Jeepers Association

Open Discussion (Club Members and Non-Members) => Non-Jeep Tech => Topic started by: Hank on March 19, 2018, 07:50:21 PM



Title: Radio
Post by: Hank on March 19, 2018, 07:50:21 PM
What radios do you guys use for Comm on the trails? I'm familiar with and have a licence for CB, HAM, and GMRS. 


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: unleashd on March 19, 2018, 07:52:45 PM
I've searched around and CB is most commonly mentioned. I was thinking of getting a GMRS license, depending on how many others may be using it as well.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: tomjones20194 on March 19, 2018, 07:56:47 PM
The large majority of folks use CBs.  In fact, Everyone Iíve ever wheeled with used CB.


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Title: Re: Radio
Post by: unleashd on March 20, 2018, 12:45:36 PM
I am also signing up for the Fairfax County HAM operator training. Not sure of the future plans but would like to start down that path.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Goonie on March 20, 2018, 01:35:17 PM
I have been looking at getting my HAM as well.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Hank on March 20, 2018, 02:03:04 PM
I am also signing up for the Fairfax County HAM operator training. Not sure of the future plans but would like to start down that path.

Itís an enjoyable hobby. Iím not much of a talker but I like to tinker.


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Title: Re: Radio
Post by: karlmagnum on March 21, 2018, 02:51:48 AM
I use CB and I have a Cobra 75WXST. It's a complete kit that I got at Right Channel Radios.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Gr8Dain on March 21, 2018, 05:59:28 AM
I've searched around and CB is most commonly mentioned. I was thinking of getting a GMRS license, depending on how many others may be using it as well.

Some of the Scrambler owners I ride with in central VA are now using GMRS along with CB. They like it. I was thinking of getting a unit. But until more people use it, it will just be the small group of users and we would need to have both on to get all of the communications anyway.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Hank on March 22, 2018, 05:24:03 PM
I've searched around and CB is most commonly mentioned. I was thinking of getting a GMRS license, depending on how many others may be using it as well.

Some of the Scrambler owners I ride with in central VA are now using GMRS along with CB. They like it. I was thinking of getting a unit. But until more people use it, it will just be the small group of users and we would need to have both on to get all of the communications anyway.


I use the GMRS mostly with the family when we are out walking trails and such.


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Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Gr8Dain on March 22, 2018, 06:24:56 PM
I've searched around and CB is most commonly mentioned. I was thinking of getting a GMRS license, depending on how many others may be using it as well.

Some of the Scrambler owners I ride with in central VA are now using GMRS along with CB. They like it. I was thinking of getting a unit. But until more people use it, it will just be the small group of users and we would need to have both on to get all of the communications anyway.


I use the GMRS mostly with the family when we are out walking trails and such.


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And what do you think of it?  Pros and cons?


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Hank on March 24, 2018, 07:15:04 AM
I've searched around and CB is most commonly mentioned. I was thinking of getting a GMRS license, depending on how many others may be using it as well.

Some of the Scrambler owners I ride with in central VA are now using GMRS along with CB. They like it. I was thinking of getting a unit. But until more people use it, it will just be the small group of users and we would need to have both on to get all of the communications anyway.


I use the GMRS mostly with the family when we are out walking trails and such.


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And what do you think of it?  Pros and cons?

Well you are allowed 5 watts on a handheld, more power than the 0.5W FRS (Family Radio Service) for sure. Your license covers you and your immediate family. The license does however cost 90$ and there are more rules to follow like using your call sign. There is little if any policing on GMRS much like CB and FRS. At most some one will say something to you. Just keep civil and if they are right well they are right. For Jeeps and Trails a mobile or base station install usually runs 50W.  Certainly a lot more than CB at 4W. You can get some very robust handheld/mobile radios to work on GMRS. GMRS allows the use of repeaters as well. You could put one in a Jeep. Put the repeater Jeep in the middle of your group and effectively double your coverage area. Also, you could put a repeater vehicle (or suitcase repeater) on top of a hill that oversees the whole trail and have Comm. on the entire trail. Really cool stuff. There is MURS (Multi-use Radio Service) but, Iím not overly familiar with that. I believe itís only 2W.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Hank on March 24, 2018, 07:17:52 AM
Ignore this post. I somehow quoted myself and made another post. I deleted the content but do not know how to delete the post entirely.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Hank on March 25, 2018, 10:21:16 AM
I've searched around and CB is most commonly mentioned. I was thinking of getting a GMRS license, depending on how many others may be using it as well.

Some of the Scrambler owners I ride with in central VA are now using GMRS along with CB. They like it. I was thinking of getting a unit. But until more people use it, it will just be the small group of users and we would need to have both on to get all of the communications anyway.


I use the GMRS mostly with the family when we are out walking trails and such.


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And what do you think of it?  Pros and cons?


Found some new regulations.

https://midlandusa.com/6-things-you-should-know-about-fcc-changes-for-frs-and-gmrs-radios/



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Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Gr8Dain on March 25, 2018, 11:01:55 AM
I've searched around and CB is most commonly mentioned. I was thinking of getting a GMRS license, depending on how many others may be using it as well.

Some of the Scrambler owners I ride with in central VA are now using GMRS along with CB. They like it. I was thinking of getting a unit. But until more people use it, it will just be the small group of users and we would need to have both on to get all of the communications anyway.


I use the GMRS mostly with the family when we are out walking trails and such.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And what do you think of it?  Pros and cons?


Found some new regulations.

https://midlandusa.com/6-things-you-should-know-about-fcc-changes-for-frs-and-gmrs-radios/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. Good info


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Dynamic on April 19, 2018, 09:24:45 AM
I run a CB, but the small group i primary wheel with is pushing hard to change GMRS / HAM  race radio setups.   

Problems we have run into
Our group is fully tuned but the general CB user hasn't taken the time to do it so the quality goes down hill fast.
My last 2 Day trips to flagpole / Peters mill have just been aweful, People channel jumping and yelling interrupting staying queued up and pushing static.  Just this last weekend we had to change channels 3 times.   I was joking we are going to have to start doing a Smokey and the bandit style "Stay on Odds and switch everytime" 


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: sirjames186 on April 19, 2018, 09:44:10 AM
I'll be honest, the GMRS/HAM license stuff is pretty close to a deal breaker for me.  The more I read about it, the more intrigued I get by MURS however.  Has anyone used one?

https://www.itstactical.com/digicom/comms/the-best-kept-secret-in-radio-communication/


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: nosigma on May 01, 2018, 05:44:59 PM
A little late to the party....

Some bonifides, I am a licensed amatuer with a General ticket.  I compete regularly in FM VHF/UHF (50 MHz to 448MHz) nationwide communication contests and have two 1st place, two 2nd place and a 3rd place finish. I work these contests from either Flag Pole or Reddish Knob.  I also have a lot of experience running CB and FRS/GMRS on trail rides.

The article cited above is sort of half baked, some is true, some is false and a lot of broad statements that are dubious or wild extrapolations based on rare conditions are made.

Here are my reccomendations:

1) You must have a CB.  This is what everyone uses as primary coms. It's common, it's the standard.  Flagpole, Rausch, Cove, Uwharrie, Hammers, it's the common denominator for all trail rides.  It's busy, its full of high power ashhats but if you have a decent trail guide you will have a primary, secondary and tertiary channels agreed to in advance to avoid that.

2) 95% of your coms will be line of sight under a half mile to the lead or tail.  CB, FRS and low power GMRS is plenty good enough.

3) The biggest problem with CB on the trail is complicated fancy radios with too many switches, knobs or all in one mikes that the user is not intimately familiar with.  I run a 15year old Radio Shack CB with an off-on button, squelch, volume and rotary channel knob.  Works like a champ.   Get a decent antenna, dont kink the cable (3 inch radius minimum bends) and coax seal the connections (self annealing tape).  DO NOT GET A HAND HELD CB. There is no counter-poise for the antenna, your too busy in the driver seat to dig for it as it bounces around with the antenna in the wrong position for good coms.

4) If you want a secondary radio get an FRS.  Some trail guides, like me, carry a few of them to hand out to the CB'less as a backup.  They burn through batteries so carry spares.

I love Ham Radio.  It's what you need in an emergency on the trail.  Seen it save a life calling for med-evac on the Rubicon.  Its not what you want for trail rides.  Get the tech license, it a ton of fun, even more with a General and HF privileges and global capability.

73
John
KM4KMU




Title: Re: Radio
Post by: PanteraPilot on May 01, 2018, 06:15:40 PM
I also have a HAM license, and I concur with Nosigma.  For the trail, a CB is the way to go.  I have a stack of them around the house but of course for a HAM, its normal to have a surplus of radios...and antennas....and cables....and boxes of other useless stuff.




...and Nosigma, please look me up at a club event.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: nosigma on May 01, 2018, 09:08:32 PM
I also have a HAM license.....
...and Nosigma, please look me up at a club event.

See you Sunday.
John


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Dynamic on May 02, 2018, 12:29:00 PM

1) You must have a CB.  This is what everyone uses as primary coms. It's common, it's the standard.  Flagpole, Rausch, Cove, Uwharrie, Hammers, it's the common denominator for all trail rides.  It's busy, its full of high power ashhats but if you have a decent trail guide you will have a primary, secondary and tertiary channels agreed to in advance to avoid that.

Probably my biggest complaint from icebreakers this last weekend, so much static and interference then on Saturday only about half our group had CBs and half of those were not tuned right including the guide who couldn't hear more than 4 vehicles back which when someone blew their power steering causing a daisy chain of repeating.

And i agree with the simple i got the basic Cobra 19 from good ole walmart.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: sirjames186 on May 02, 2018, 01:21:27 PM

1) You must have a CB.  This is what everyone uses as primary coms. It's common, it's the standard.  Flagpole, Rausch, Cove, Uwharrie, Hammers, it's the common denominator for all trail rides.  It's busy, its full of high power ashhats but if you have a decent trail guide you will have a primary, secondary and tertiary channels agreed to in advance to avoid that.

Probably my biggest complaint from icebreakers this last weekend, so much static and interference then on Saturday only about half our group had CBs and half of those were not tuned right including the guide who couldn't hear more than 4 vehicles back which when someone blew their power steering causing a daisy chain of repeating.

And i agree with the simple i got the basic Cobra 19 from good ole walmart.


That's just bad planning if you ask me.  The event should be making sure their guides are squared away, trained, prepared etc.  I was at Wheeling for Hope over the weekend with 200 vehicles and didn't have any problems with a CB.  Each group had a channel and it worked great.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: nosigma on May 02, 2018, 05:00:04 PM
I also have a HAM license.....
...and Nosigma, please look me up at a club event.

See you Sunday.
John

I wont be there Sunday.  Work calls.  Just found out this afternoon.

Maybe the S&S


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 14, 2018, 07:34:19 AM
Cb are cheap so that seems to be the ticket for most.  Also  since it was a gold standard  decades ago  most still use it as a primary communication device.  Old technology and I agree  static noise make them anoying. I have been exploring rugged Raqdions dual band  system, bit more expensive than the $29.00 Walmart CB, but much more capable as well.

I proposed this a while back to see if we  NOVA Jeepers club could pull together a group buy ( we have what 120 members) and see if we can get a volume discount on a full system to include antenna and small radio.  Did not seem to be much in the way of interest and the usual "everyone uses a CB and they are cheap".

Going to investigate pricing for"
25 units
50 units
100 units

Cheers


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 14, 2018, 12:52:56 PM
So I talked to Joe from Rugged Radios and he passed some information.

1) They are california based and from what he is seeing  more and more Jeep clubs are going away from CB radios.  Poor recieption and limited range are their chief complaints.
2) The dual band radio they offer  transmits on either VHF or UHF. VHF is better for open terrain and UHF is better for hilly terrain.
3) the radios come programed with 40 channels  and a capacity for 200. To program  required a programing cable and working with free software to program the radio.
4)  I discussed  pricing for the jeep club if we were to do this.  
      - Joe  said that in a unit per unit  one at a time buy  he would extend a 15% discount.
      - If the club  put together a group buy of 25-50 units the discount would be bigger  ( thinking 20+%)  
      - with a larger group buy  Rugged radio will include a programing cable and link to sharware for reprograming.

The two radios sets I looked at are:

The trail rider kit with dual band radio https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1167_1170&products_id=1712
The other is the Complete Jeep starter kit with 25 watt radio and 5 watt handheld. https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1167_1334&products_id=2455

Trail rider radio is $168.00 before discount  do the math  at on a projected buy of 25 or more could be around ea $135.00 plus shipping
The Dual band 25watt Jeep Kit (2 radios) is $368.00 before discount and with a buy of 25 or more  could be around  ea $295 plus shipping.

I know a few folks that have this setup on their side by sides and they love the radio!. I have purchased a Jeep Kit set up for R3 to include the handheld as well.  I like the inclusion of the hendheld radio as it can be a spotter tool to communicate with the driver or a way to stay connected  when you leave the rig.  

Upside:  Better clear communication  with much more range than the standard CB.  set up a standard  primary , 2 or 3 alternate club frequencies to operate on.

Down side: More costly than the Walmart CB or GMRS battery powered handhelds. Outside non members would be without comms. or requre club to maintain some  CB comms for these purposes.

A thought  if the club wants to do a group buy is to work it thru one of our club supporting venders for payment options and order placement.

My radio setup will be in this comming weekend  and installed next week. I will be running both CB and Dual band VHF/UHF in two weeks.

Cheers
Rob


PS  Volunteering for the club Radio guy position if we decide to go this route.




Title: Re: Radio
Post by: sirjames186 on May 14, 2018, 01:19:05 PM
$300 (+license to use it) is steep.  If I'm getting into dual band radios, it'll be with one of these:  http://a.co/hEUbrp0


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 14, 2018, 01:29:30 PM
The trail rider kit with dual band radio https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1167_1170&products_id=1712

Is very close to what you showed.. cost is less than $80 more. bet it last a hell of a lot longer  too.  USA built radio vs a Chinese off amazon?


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: sirjames186 on May 14, 2018, 01:34:47 PM
The trail rider kit with dual band radio https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1167_1170&products_id=1712

Is very close to what you showed.. cost is less than $80 more. bet it last a hell of a lot longer  too.  USA built radio vs a Chinese off amazon?


Baofeng is based out of South Dakota actually

https://baofengtech.com/about


Title: Radio
Post by: Hank on May 14, 2018, 01:36:34 PM
The trail rider kit with dual band radio https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1167_1170&products_id=1712

Is very close to what you showed.. cost is less than $80 more. bet it last a hell of a lot longer  too.  USA built radio vs a Chinese off amazon?

It is exactly the same just different color and crazy overpriced. I have one and they work well enough. Plus programming them is stupid simple and the software is free. They donít compare to the Motorolaís I work on however they are great for personal use. But I doubt most will be interested in getting the proper license for them.

Edited: for extra words


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Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 14, 2018, 01:40:22 PM
$300 (+license to use it) is steep.  If I'm getting into dual band radios, it'll be with one of these:  http://a.co/hEUbrp0

Read the Q&A, lots of questions on legality


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 14, 2018, 01:40:53 PM
The trail rider kit with dual band radio https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1167_1170&products_id=1712

Is very close to what you showed.. cost is less than $80 more. bet it last a hell of a lot longer  too.  USA built radio vs a Chinese off amazon?


Baofeng is based out of South Dakota actually

https://baofengtech.com/about

By bad. thanks for updating. Wonder where they are built. no mention of that on their website. that are shipped from SD.... cheap is not done  in the US industrial base, that is done overseas... give em a go see  what happens.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 14, 2018, 02:30:36 PM
Quality Performance Group is now a Rugged Radio Dealer...

I believe the Big Bad Bronco is going to have a Rugged radio in it soon. 

 :cheers


Title: Re: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 14, 2018, 04:29:56 PM
The trail rider kit with dual band radio https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1167_1170&products_id=1712

Is very close to what you showed.. cost is less than $80 more. bet it last a hell of a lot longer  too.  USA built radio vs a Chinese off amazon?

It is exactly the same just different color and crazy overpriced. I have one and they work well enough. Plus programming them is stupid simple and the software is free. They donít compare to the Motorolaís I work on however they are great for personal use. But I doubt most will be interested in getting the proper license for them.

Edited: for extra words


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Interesting, chatted with RR for a bit. They make their own radios just for them. Packaging may be the same form fit function but not the same internals.  The RR trail rider comes with power cord and a mic/speaker... Mount it in the vehicle and you have a base station....just low wattage.

Couple of us are going this way will check back with feedback.  Willing to go with better clearer comms and maybe even ditch the CB eventually.

I asked how RR compares to Motorola, functionally they stack up pretty well. Motorola is water proof and bit more ruggedized due to who they support.  These Rugged radios have been used by race teams out west, King of the hammers, Baja 1000 etc.  I have a couple friends with SXS machines and they love the radio.

For those of us that wheel on a regular basis... I think this is a good way to go. As for cost, well I see a lot of rigs that have a bunch of coin in them... And rarely see a trail. The handle held is the cost of a tire to put it into prospective.

The folks at RR seam nice and are very willing to chat and answer hard questions.

Cheers

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk



Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Hank on May 14, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
The trail rider kit with dual band radio https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1167_1170&products_id=1712

Is very close to what you showed.. cost is less than $80 more. bet it last a hell of a lot longer  too.  USA built radio vs a Chinese off amazon?

It is exactly the same just different color and crazy overpriced. I have one and they work well enough. Plus programming them is stupid simple and the software is free. They donít compare to the Motorolaís I work on however they are great for personal use. But I doubt most will be interested in getting the proper license for them.

Edited: for extra words


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting, chatted with RR for a bit. They make their own radios just for them. Packaging may be the same form fit function but not the same internals.  The RR trail rider comes with power cord and a mic/speaker... Mount it in the vehicle and you have a base station....just low wattage.

Couple of us are going this way will check back with feedback.  Willing to go with better clearer comms and maybe even ditch the CB eventually.

I asked how RR compares to Motorola, functionally they stack up pretty well. Motorola is water proof and bit more ruggedized due to who they support.  These Rugged radios have been used by race teams out west, King of the hammers, Baja 1000 etc.  I have a couple friends with SXS machines and they love the radio.

For those of us that wheel on a regular basis... I think this is a good way to go. As for cost, well I see a lot of rigs that have a bunch of coin in them... And rarely see a trail. The handle held is the cost of a tire to put it into prospective.

The folks at RR seam nice and are very willing to chat and answer hard questions.

Cheers

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

What programming software do they provide?


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Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Dynamic on May 14, 2018, 05:00:26 PM
The small group i usually wheel with is split about 50/50 on race radios the biggest holdup isn't the cost its the legality.  What licenses do you need ect ect


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 15, 2018, 07:06:58 AM
The small group i usually wheel with is split about 50/50 on race radios the biggest holdup isn't the cost its the legality.  What licenses do you need ect ect


Will let you know soon.  Radios inbound this week.  I will contact  RR and see if they can  advise.

Stay tuned...

 :cheers


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 15, 2018, 12:56:43 PM
The small group i usually wheel with is split about 50/50 on race radios the biggest holdup isn't the cost its the legality.  What licenses do you need ect ect


Dynamic,
Just off the phone with Rugged Radios, here is the scoop:

Dual band radio,

- VHF side falls into FCC part 90 for mobile radio. The VHF side requires no license. Freq band is from 150-174 mHz, below this falls into the HAM radio and requirtes a license. If you operate in VHF only  no license is required.


https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=f53cc5a928acfec24334e5753c3a3c13&mc=true&node=pt47.1.1&rgn=div5#se47.1.1_1913

(4) FCC Form 605, Quick-form Application for Authorization for Wireless Radio Services. FCC Form 605 is used to apply for Amateur, Ship, Aircraft, and General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) authorizations, as well as Commercial Radio Operator Licenses.

- UHF falls into the GMRS  catagory and requires a license. this costs $75.00 and is good for 10 years.  It covers a family ( small number 5 or so ) so it could be use in small groups designated as a "family".  https://www.fcc.gov/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

I have purchased a Jeep kit from Rugged Radios  that comes with a hand held and vehicle mounted unit with antenna and cable.  If your "small group" is interested in going down this path, please contact Quality Performance Group our club vendor and order thru Colin. I am pretty sure He can support you with a decent discount. Remember he has to make somethign on the sale to stay in business.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Hank on May 15, 2018, 01:23:53 PM
The small group i usually wheel with is split about 50/50 on race radios the biggest holdup isn't the cost its the legality.  What licenses do you need ect ect


Dynamic,
Just off the phone with Rugged Radios, here is the scoop:

Dual band radio,

- VHF side falls into FCC part 90 for mobile radio. The side requires no license. Freque band is from 150-174 mHz, below this falls into teh HAM radio and requirtes a license If you operate in VHF only  no license is required.

- UHF falls into the GMRS  catagory and requires a license. this costs $75.00 and is good for 10 years.  It covers a family ( small number 5 or so ) so it could be use in small groups designated as a "family".  https://www.fcc.gov/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs


The VHF is MURS and itís limited to 2 Watts. The UHF is GMRS it is nice you are allowed a lot more power for Mobile is allowed more power in some cases up to 50 watts but you have to have a license. To compare CB is allowed 4 watts I believe. Also, if itís programmable yourself that changes the legality of being used on those as well. Youíd have to make sure you are using only the MURS frequencies. 150-174 MHz is considered the buisness band and MURS is an extremely small portion of that.



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Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 16, 2018, 06:57:30 AM
Will continue to  drill down into the licensing  issue. It would apear that this is not an expensive route to go. Navigating the  FCC website requires some time and understanding... 

The info presented  was direct from  Rugged Radios and they also passed that the rules on this are"changing rather quickly"  that might be why the FCC webpage is so difficult to apply to this particular radio set.

More to follow.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Hank on May 16, 2018, 07:20:32 AM
The GMRS stuff has changed a bit recently. So I am a little more vague on that. The MURS has stayed the same though. 150-174 will not likely change. Thatís what the Gov and Buisness use for VHF so they arenít going to screw with that. Source for this educated guess: I work radio for the Gov. It would cost boatloads of money to have to reprogram everything let alone if radios need to be replaced. Heck there are groups that are not narrow band still. And thatís been going on since the 90s I believe. It started before my time in radio.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: sirjames186 on May 16, 2018, 08:11:59 AM
I brought up MURS awhile ago and kind of got poo pooed, but it seems like that is the way to go here....


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Dynamic on May 16, 2018, 09:10:28 AM
This has gone as i expected  :lol   I find a bunch of info like you posted then get knocked down by a bunch of technicality counter information. 


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 16, 2018, 09:36:48 AM
Tried to apply for a license but software at work blocked the content.
process

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/licManager/narli/radioservice.jsp?action=
actionNew


I used the PW  radio code which covered the freq bands for VHF/UHF for the radio set from Rugged.  Fee  is assest when application is complete, so I can't pass  cost data along.

Accoding to the company  FCC Part 90 Mobile Radio is where this lives. Looking thru the application process  to cover  150-174 and 450-470mHz  (VHF/UHF) , the code is PW for Private land Mobile Services Public safety .  It doesn't referre to any restritiction to government use or minipality use ( Police /fire/rescue)  so I am thinking that this is for public use and applies to teh dual band radio. I am not calling out or wishing to start a unrinary olympiad  just passing information I have found on the regulatory website. 

The on-line process looks to be realitivly straight forward and for the most part self guided with  links to additional needed information.  I the two bands listed are for "avaliable nation wide" according to the ULC website information.
Regerstered for a  FCC RN number in about 2 minutes. Trying to continue from there is a software  lack of capability on my work computer stopage.

When the left coast wakes up I wil again toggle them for more information on licensing and pass what I have found and see how it allpies to their equipment and our use. This sounds like a complicated matter  but with all things out of the normal  it just requires a level of understanding.

Legally you have to register the radio set. As a club I would  think that the club position is to be legal if this become a club  supported issue or equipment.  I am workign thru the process and will report back with information and updates as I get them.

Cheers



Title: Re: Radio
Post by: unleashd on May 16, 2018, 10:37:40 AM
'ZA' is the code for GMRS application. Cost is $75 for a 10 year license. No testing required. Just apply, pay the fee and you shall receive the license in a few days.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 16, 2018, 11:01:11 AM
More to my last and to address some question  from Hank.

VHF programed  freqs  for the 40 channels are  a range 150-160 skipping over the MURS freqs.

UHF  programed  freqs  for the 40 channels affored are a range 462-467  (in the GMRS range) Code ZA

 On the ULS  website (FCC on-line) the radio set  ( dual band ) can be registered  under Private Land Mobile services   FCC Moble radio part 90.  This covers both bands.

1) To register on-line you need an FRN  ( FCC Registery Number)  https://apps.fcc.gov/coresWeb/publicHome.do  Process take about 2 minutes on line.
2) Once you have a FRN you need to apply for a license https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/licManager/login.jsp
3) once logged in, https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/wireless-services#block-menu-block-4 , select a radio service  Private Land mobile services  part 90 covers the range of freqs in the radio in both bands.  Code PW
4) from here  select PW from the drop down list and follow  the on-line  promots.

Notes,

- If you never plan to use  VHF  (Open country and on road) no need to register  the VHF side
- If you only plan to use the UHF side  (better for hill terrian) you can register as GMRS ( according to Rugged Radios)

That is the best I can do for information on this subject.   from what I have read and what I am hearing  more and more Jeep clubs are  moving in this direction. The biggest movment is out west obviously as that is where the company is located.  As for our club I know that OSE and myself are going to install  this setup I will have a handheld   in addition to a vehicle mounted unit, OSE will have a handheld  mounted in his rig.

 I have been a big believer in CB radios for many decades. I have found that  CH9 is not monitored  much anymore and REACT stations are far and few  in-between.  Police, least teh ones I talk with  mostly do not monitor the CB if it is even installed.  On the road  while there are many trucker still using this there as many not using CB as forms of communication.

trail rides  the selcted channels have bleed over from amped up  operators, squelch has to be turned up to almost max to control noise.   Tuning... slap a antenna on  and go..... performance sucketh! Clarity of communcation  is another issue analogue coms.  Replace and remove the CB?  I don't think so  YET.  I will run both  for now as the Cobra is a hide away install.  

I have done some  digging and this is what I am finding between the manufacturer and the FCC website.

Ethan or Joe is who I have been dealing with at Rugged Radios  (888) 541-7223 is their number.  they are interrest in working a group buy that will include a heft discount.  Our Local Rep Quality Performance is also interested in assisiting in a group buy.  I realize with a club  as large as ours  that there will be 10% that are interested in somethign like this.

Cheers
Rob.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 16, 2018, 06:18:53 PM
The radios arrived today.  Attached are a couple of snaps. Handheld radio is 2 inch wide by 4 inch long by a 1 inch deep.

Vehicle unit is 4x4x1.5. can be mounted atop The dash in the cubbie and still be able to.use the cubbie.
Alternate is to the passenger side of the gearshift on the lower dash.

Haven't decided yet.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180516/71f79628fa0e6fc2fddd4623f58334ab.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180516/db5add5ca3054f40b744b0bbf0634c71.jpg)

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk



Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Dynamic on May 16, 2018, 07:32:09 PM
Looks good !  I really appreciate all the research and efforts you have put in.  Will you be at the S&S Saturday? i do wanna see these in person  :wrench


Title: Re:
Post by: JK_HVGC on May 16, 2018, 09:06:19 PM
So we actually use all the rugged products during KOH.  They are primary comms.  I run the radio relay for the race team.

They work great in open terrain like the desert.  We set up a 50 ft mast for race day and can talk to the race car at 30 miles + as the crow flies.

The higher frequency spectrum loses it's advantage in hilly terrain.  The higher you go in the frequency spectrum, the more line of site your comms become.  The lower end of the spectrum works well in hilly terrain as the signal will bounce along the ground. 

Most planes use UHF, line of sight, because of how high they are. 

Long story short, I wouldnt invest in VHF out east.  The terrain isn't conducive with the amount of power pushed. 

If we lived in Cali, then this would be the way to go.

Jeremy

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk



Title: Re: Radio
Post by: nosigma on May 17, 2018, 12:43:35 AM
The snake oil runneth deep.

John


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 17, 2018, 01:31:31 PM
Looks good !  I really appreciate all the research and efforts you have put in.  Will you be at the S&S Saturday? i do wanna see these in person  :wrench

I have to bow out of the S&S, I have  obligations in Suffolk Va that weekend now.  Be happy to catch you up next week after work and we can  talk Jeep $hit and Radios.

Cheers


Mounting  the antenna and radio  tonight.


Title: Re:
Post by: VA6489 on May 17, 2018, 01:33:14 PM
So we actually use all the rugged products during KOH.  They are primary comms.  I run the radio relay for the race team.

They work great in open terrain like the desert.  We set up a 50 ft mast for race day and can talk to the race car at 30 miles + as the crow flies.

The higher frequency spectrum loses it's advantage in hilly terrain.  The higher you go in the frequency spectrum, the more line of site your comms become.  The lower end of the spectrum works well in hilly terrain as the signal will bounce along the ground. 

Most planes use UHF, line of sight, because of how high they are. 

Long story short, I wouldnt invest in VHF out east.  The terrain isn't conducive with the amount of power pushed. 

If we lived in Cali, then this would be the way to go.

Jeremy

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk



KOH  feedback! love it!  Thanks Jeremy.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: PanteraPilot on May 17, 2018, 05:41:44 PM
The snake oil runneth deep.

John



 :) :) :)


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 18, 2018, 06:13:49 AM
99,
I run into this all the time  in my position at work. A new Idea is heresey and Old  is comfortable  no matter what becuase we  1) understand it and 2)are comfortable using it.

All I have to say is  Mr. Ford the model T is outdated and being surpassed by better technology. It is time to move on and retire the model T.


Good Discussions both pro and con and yes the sarcastic too.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 18, 2018, 08:03:20 PM
Looks good !  I really appreciate all the research and efforts you have put in.  Will you be at the S&S Saturday? i do wanna see these in person  :wrench

Dynamic,
Travel plans changed, see you at the S&S. Radio is temp installed. with handheld.

Rob.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: nosigma on May 18, 2018, 08:09:07 PM
Get a CB or be very lonely listening to static.

John


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 21, 2018, 06:41:17 AM
Get a CB or be very lonely listening to static.

John

Who says  thre will not be others???  Had some great feedback  from the S&S.  Run with a coulpe guys that already have units....

As to analogue technology... yes I have one installed right next to the new dual band...  and I know this is something that the old jeep may not have,   a Radio... so music  abounds. LOL.



Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Dynamic on May 21, 2018, 07:01:20 AM
Get a CB and be very lonely listening to static.

John

Fixed that For you  :lol
Atleast thats been my experience with 2 flagpole / 1 PetersMill  & 1 CoveBigDogs Event this year
In Fact our guide @ BD could only hear 3 vehicles back so we had to daisy chain all day and that was spotty at best

I have a CB its been tuned to a  1/1 By AutoOutfitters in Manassas and still its Spotty because what 15% bothered to tune them correctly?  I even started carrying my SWR meeting in my bag and trying to help others tune theres as well.I will be adding a RuggedRadio To my setup cause More communication never hurt anyone.  And even if only my core group of friends opt-in its hands down worth it, but I go into this knowing others I am interested in wheeling with also intend to do it. 


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 21, 2018, 12:00:23 PM
Get a CB and be very lonely listening to static.

John

Fixed that For you  :lol
Atleast thats been my experience with 2 flagpole / 1 PetersMill  & 1 CoveBigDogs Event this year
In Fact our guide @ BD could only hear 3 vehicles back so we had to daisy chain all day and that was spotty at best

I have a CB its been tuned to a  1/1 By AutoOutfitters in Manassas and still its Spotty because what 15% bothered to tune them correctly?  I even started carrying my SWR meeting in my bag and trying to help others tune theres as well.I will be adding a RuggedRadio To my setup cause More communication never hurt anyone.  And even if only my core group of friends opt-in its hands down worth it, but I go into this knowing others I am interested in wheeling with also intend to do it. 

Good to hear  :cheers

Some will  join  the movement :tu

Some will watch... :?

and some will try to  shovel  fertilizer on it.  :duh

For me clear  dependable comms  is worth it.  The advantages to Citizen Band other than dirt cheap don't seem to be there.

Cheers


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: nosigma on May 21, 2018, 10:14:34 PM
Some will  join  the movement, dont forget to flush

Fixed it for you.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Gr8Dain on May 22, 2018, 05:33:14 AM
Wow. Radios are a passionate topic.

Please remember to keep it friendly folks.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 22, 2018, 06:35:37 AM
Morning,

 I tried to present corect information, did the research for licensing and present the links to that information.   This is a movement on the west coast in the Jeep clubs according to the Company.  One of our own a KoH racer  uses this  equipment and presented his views.  I personally am always looking to improve things, and look for better ways.  I have used this set up  with folks that are not assiciated with this club and was very happy with the clarity of communications it has presented.  I know that several members in this club are going this way.   I did a show and tell at the Show and Shine and from that a few members decided that they too would like to go down this route.  We have a supporting vendor  that has picked up tis line as well.

I also realize that there are those who will  play the part of the Negitive Nancy, I apologize for feeding that line of thinking.

At the end of the day we have a lot of members. So  are show and shine  vehicles, some are  Street rigs affectionatly known as mall crawlers and some are  on the trail wheelers. Effective  clear communications doesn't apply to all these  sub groups.

Again I apologize for the  negitive turn this thread has taken.

if anyone would like more information  pleae contact  Qualtiy Performance our vender or myself  and I will be happy to answer any question you may have.

R3


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: unleashd on May 22, 2018, 07:02:10 AM
R3.
What did these RRs set you back? I need to also get a mobile HAM setup. So, I need to prioritize. I have a CB already and it worked well on our last trip to peters mill if you remember.


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Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Gr8Dain on May 22, 2018, 07:35:42 AM
Morning,

 I tried to present corect information, did the research for licensing and present the links to that information.   This is a movement on the west coast in the Jeep clubs according to the Company.  One of our own a KoH racer  uses this  equipment and presented his views.  I personally am always looking to improve things, and look for better ways.  I have used this set up  with folks that are not assiciated with this club and was very happy with the clarity of communications it has presented.  I know that several members in this club are going this way.   I did a show and tell at the Show and Shine and from that a few members decided that they too would like to go down this route.  We have a supporting vendor  that has picked up tis line as well.

I also realize that there are those who will  play the part of the Negitive Nancy, I apologize for feeding that line of thinking.

At the end of the day we have a lot of members. So  are show and shine  vehicles, some are  Street rigs affectionatly known as mall crawlers and some are  on the trail wheelers. Effective  clear communications doesn't apply to all these  sub groups.

Again I apologize for the  negitive turn this thread has taken.

if anyone would like more information  pleae contact  Qualtiy Performance our vender or myself  and I will be happy to answer any question you may have.

R3

No worries. I was simply wanting to keep this thread friendly and informative.

I am interested in the topic as I had been thinking about GMRS last year.

There appear to be a lot of right choices depending on intended uses and needs. And that is all good.

Keep the facts coming.


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Hank on May 22, 2018, 08:07:27 AM
I sincerely hope no one thinks Iím being a naysayer. Iím all about improving communications. I simply advise caution. In the 150-174 range there are a lot of gov entities. These radios are easy to program there for easy to program wrong. Some of us will be all about doing things by the book others maybe not. If you end up stepping on some one elseís frequency you can can in some serious trouble. They donít enforce CB or HAM very much Also, if Iíve got an officer in the field and Joe Blow is stepping on my frequency that could cause a serious officer safety issue. Having said that I am seriously interested in learning more about these frequencies you want to use. If people are on board Iíd like to see how it works in comparison to CB. If done well itíll not only improve comm but hopefully get more people interested in radio.


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Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 22, 2018, 09:28:22 AM
R3.
What did these RRs set you back? I need to also get a mobile HAM setup. So, I need to prioritize. I have a CB already and it worked well on our last trip to peters mill if you remember.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please contact Quality performance (Colin) for pricing (703) 543-6433. I understand he is putting together a small group buy.  He can  give you more information on that. You can go direct to Rugged radios bu t that  cost is retail and a bit steeper.

R3


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 22, 2018, 09:45:03 AM
I sincerely hope no one thinks Iím being a naysayer. Iím all about improving communications. I simply advise caution. In the 150-174 range there are a lot of gov entities. These radios are easy to program there for easy to program wrong. Some of us will be all about doing things by the book others maybe not. If you end up stepping on some one elseís frequency you can can in some serious trouble. They donít enforce CB or HAM very much Also, if Iíve got an officer in the field and Joe Blow is stepping on my frequency that could cause a serious officer safety issue. Having said that I am seriously interested in learning more about these frequencies you want to use. If people are on board Iíd like to see how it works in comparison to CB. If done well itíll not only improve comm but hopefully get more people interested in radio.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Understand your concerns.  The bands you are discussing  work better out west and in open terrain.  There is licensing that goes with that.  As to operators not following the rules...  every time we build a more stupid proof  piece of gear they build a better stupid operator to go with it. That can't be controlled.  The majority of folks will follow the rules. A club policy will help enforce those rules.   My discussions with Rugged Radios, the frequencies they  have programmed  are good to go without  stepping on LEO or critical comms.  I have this from the manufacturer  but there is always an exception.  There are 40 pre-programmed channels, pick  three or four for the  club to operate on. There are 16 pre-programmed GMRS channels ( Licensing $70.00 for 10 yrs).

As to the stepping on a comms channel, a quick identification of the officer on the net, and a request  or direction to clear the channel is  usually what is required and solves the issue.   Are there people out there  or even within this club that would  disrupt?  Yes. will they  get in trouble maybe not right away but they will get caught by their own devices. 

AS to programming, that requires effort.... intent... this set up has 40 preprogrammed channels... ( funny same as a cb but without every tom Dick and Harry  on an illegal set balsting 200 watts)

Lastly,
we live in a world where the sky is falling and we will all die! according to the media....  Actually no, we are not going to die today,  it was just rain. 


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: Dynamic on May 22, 2018, 09:48:10 AM
Like R3 said Colin (Quality Performance) is getting a very good deal on these on top of the RR May Sale I suggest calling him my understanding is the current group order is going in late this week.  I know for a fact he has 5 Orders already  :jw


@Hank Part of your statement is exactly why i am actually getting one of the units instead of just handheld so i can learn and utilize all the functions and expand my knowledge and use. I like gadgets and tinkering


Title: Re: Radio
Post by: VA6489 on May 22, 2018, 10:03:26 AM
Like R3 said Colin (Quality Performance) is getting a very good deal on these on top of the RR May Sale I suggest calling him my understanding is the current group order is going in late this week.  I know for a fact he has 5 Orders already  :jw


@Hank Part of your statement is exactly why i am actually getting one of the units instead of just handheld so i can learn and utilize all the functions and expand my knowledge and use. I like gadgets and tinkering

Think aboutthe noise filter as well it is plug and play, not required but could be good insurance. I have  LED  spotlights that make noise on my power line. The filter cleaned that up.  They offer a Radio and intercomm filter or an intercomm filter. I am usng the combine radio /intercomm filter.