Northern Virginia Jeepers Association

Open Discussion (Club Members and Non-Members) => Jeep Tech Talk => Topic started by: unleashd on April 03, 2018, 11:22:09 AM



Title: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on April 03, 2018, 11:22:09 AM
Just noticed that the camber on the front looks deceivingly incorrect to the eye. Is it just my bad eyesight?

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Jeep/i-hhcVdDP/0/cd419039/X2/IMG_3866-X2.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Jeep/i-pMrgcZf/0/c54e9822/X2/IMG_3862-X2.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Jeep/i-d39zTPw/0/3afbef54/X2/IMG_3860-X2.jpg)


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: highlandercj-7 on April 03, 2018, 11:24:40 AM
I bet you need ball joints. Jack it up and see if the wheel moves when you push and pull on the top. I had to replace the driver side ball joints in my Daughters before I drove it home from FL. It was doing the same. They can also induce death wobble.


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: Redleg on April 03, 2018, 11:30:50 AM
If its not the ball joints, you might want to get a laser on the axle, it could be bent, but I agree it is probably the ball joints.


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: schreiberaj on April 03, 2018, 01:12:02 PM
If it drives straight, and doesn't get bad vibrations or death wobble then just run it. It's cool nowadays to have messed up camber anyways.


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: RFH_98TJ on April 03, 2018, 01:19:27 PM
In a whispering voice: "No one wants to mention that it might be the axle's "C" bent do we?"


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: Redleg on April 03, 2018, 01:33:07 PM
In a whispering voice: "No one wants to mention that it might be the axle's "C" bent do we?"

Well there is that....


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: Jeepsnbuses on April 03, 2018, 01:41:16 PM
If it drives straight, and doesn't get bad vibrations or death wobble then just run it. It's cool nowadays to have messed up camber anyways.

#jeepstancelyfe


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: sirjames186 on April 03, 2018, 02:01:58 PM
In a whispering voice: "No one wants to mention that it might be the axle's "C" bent do we?"

If this is true (hope it's not) I've got another d30 with 3.73s and fresh ball joints for sale


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on April 03, 2018, 03:06:00 PM
If it drives straight, and doesn't get bad vibrations or death wobble then just run it. It's cool nowadays to have messed up camber anyways.

Vibes went away after I installed the transfer case lowering kit. Drives straight with no wobble. I think I am just ADD about the visual :D


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on April 03, 2018, 03:08:25 PM
In a whispering voice: "No one wants to mention that it might be the axle's "C" bent do we?"

If this is true (hope it's not) I've got another d30 with 3.73s and fresh ball joints for sale

I have 3.07 :(

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Jeep/i-XPbQTpZ/0/fee2947c/M/IMG_3813-M.jpg)


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: wbsjp on April 03, 2018, 03:52:53 PM
In a whispering voice: "No one wants to mention that it might be the axle's "C" bent do we?"

Its NOT a JK....... Toe may be out.......


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: zuke on April 03, 2018, 06:17:46 PM
In a whispering voice: "No one wants to mention that it might be the axle's "C" bent do we?"

Its NOT a JK....... Toe may be out.......

Agree, Looks to me like the toe is pointing in.... Set each wheel individually to straight ahead and see if the camber still looks crazy...


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: sticksout on April 03, 2018, 09:16:46 PM
In a whispering voice: "No one wants to mention that it might be the axle's "C" bent do we?"

If this is true (hope it's not) I've got another d30 with 3.73s and fresh ball joints for sale

I have 3.07 :(

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Jeep/i-XPbQTpZ/0/fee2947c/M/IMG_3813-M.jpg)

I'm impressed you'r plate is still legible.


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on April 03, 2018, 10:02:58 PM
Checklist
- Check Ball Joints
- Check if the Axle may be bent??
- Check if the 'C' - Knuckle is bent
- Check for 'toe in'


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: tomjones20194 on April 04, 2018, 12:59:03 PM
Camber cannot be adjusted. It fixed at the steering knuckle. If itís out of spec then worn ball joints, bent knuckle or bent axle.


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Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on June 04, 2018, 10:52:21 AM
Any suggestions for brand/specs of the ball joints? I was talking to Exline earlier today, and he mentioned that I should look at adjustable ball joints.


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: highlandercj-7 on June 04, 2018, 11:10:22 AM
That is all up to you. If you have bad return to center issues then adjustable may be the ticket, MOOG does make them but they are not cheap.

I am putting MOOG, non-adjustables in the Daughters TJ this weekend. They are good quality and expensive enough.

At Advance:

Standard MOOG Upper K3134T --$68.99
Standard MOOG Lower K3161T --$78.99

The caster correction joints are available 1/2' thru 2' caster correction and are around $104 to $150 each.


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: highlandercj-7 on June 04, 2018, 11:13:16 AM
Camber cannot be adjusted. It fixed at the steering knuckle. If itís out of spec then worn ball joints, bent knuckle or bent axle.


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About that, They came out with offset ball joints to give the ability to do that now :eek (see above)


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on June 04, 2018, 12:53:35 PM
That is all up to you. If you have bad return to center issues then adjustable may be the ticket, MOOG does make them but they are not cheap.

I am putting MOOG, non-adjustables in the Daughters TJ this weekend. They are good quality and expensive enough.

At Advance:

Standard MOOG Upper K3134T --$68.99
Standard MOOG Lower K3161T --$78.99

The caster correction joints are available 1/2' thru 2' caster correction and are around $104 to $150 each.

Is that price per ball joint? or a set of 2? Amazon has the same for less than half the price for each.

Upper - https://www.amazon.com/Moog-K3134T-Ball-Joint/dp/B000C542NY/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1528134529&sr=1-4&keywords=moog+k3134t+ball+joint

Lower - https://www.amazon.com/Moog-K3161T-Ball-Joint/dp/B000C55Y54/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1528134710&sr=1-4&keywords=moog+k3161t+ball+joint


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: highlandercj-7 on June 04, 2018, 01:13:28 PM
That was advance. Wow didn't know that amazon sold them


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on June 04, 2018, 01:20:08 PM
That was advance. Wow didn't know that amazon sold them
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180604/74f36e9e743967de2d55ed41200ce4c3.jpg)


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: wbsjp on June 04, 2018, 09:38:53 PM
Any suggestions for brand/specs of the ball joints? I was talking to Exline earlier today, and he mentioned that I should look at adjustable ball joints.

Dana/Spicer,greasable .Moog  (some are )knurled and will mess up the holes in the knuckle.
 About the adjustable joints...did they tell you how much you need ?


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on June 05, 2018, 05:22:11 AM
Any suggestions for brand/specs of the ball joints? I was talking to Exline earlier today, and he mentioned that I should look at adjustable ball joints.

Dana/Spicer,greasable .Moog  (some are )knurled and will mess up the holes in the knuckle.
 About the adjustable joints...did they tell you how much you need ?
No. I spoke to them on the phone while trying to get a service appointment. He also said that they wonít install those.


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: Runner on June 07, 2018, 06:14:08 AM
Adjustable ball joints aren't needed and don't typically hold up as well as factory ones, so stick with Spicer or Moog.  As has been said, camber can be impacted by:

- bent axle tubes
- bent knuckles
- worn ball-joints

The only other thing I can think of would be a bad hub bearing (I once had one with excessive play that gave me fits).  Lastly, stay away from knurled ball-joints.  I know this from my own bad experience with them!  FWIW, I have a personal preference for Spicer, since that's what was on there from the factory and I've seen them last 200k+ on stock tires.

https://www.amazon.com/Spicer-706944X-Socket-Assembly/dp/B007N6OHI0/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1528368922&vehicle=2003-42-356-141--30-1-8-3360-254-1-2--83-1-0&sr=1-1&ymm=2003%3Ajeep%3Awrangler&keywords=spicer+ball+joint   



Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on June 07, 2018, 10:19:41 AM
These are what received last night from Amazon. They are Moog. I have used Moog suspension parts multiple times in the past on other vehicles with good results. So, I stuck to that brand. Should I return them to get the Spicer instead?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Yu5qzyQXL._SL1234_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61s6pg1HexL._SL1253_.jpg)


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: Runner on June 07, 2018, 02:31:30 PM
These look like Moog Problem Solver ball joints and are knurled, i.e. notice the splines.  I would not use these unless absolutely necessary (they will enlarge the hole and you can't go back to smooth ones).  Stick with a smooth bore ball joint like the one pictured in the link.

https://www.amazon.com/Spicer-706944X-Socket-Assembly/dp/B007N6OHI0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1528399591&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=spicer+ball+joint+wrangler+tj

Bottom line, you can use a Moog one if you want, but try to stay away from knurled versions.

Update:  My statement above assumes the ball joints haven't been replaced before with knurled versions.  If it has, then you will have no choice but to use what you already bought.


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: nosigma on June 07, 2018, 11:38:47 PM
Take it to a good shop and get it aligned.    The alignment sheet will tell you exactly what is out of spec if anything.  Just looking at a picture to try and decide if something is bent (camber) or the toe is off is guess work.  If you dont know how to check ball joints have them do it while you are there.  Once you have numbers you will have answers.  

John


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: Dunejk13 on June 12, 2018, 09:25:52 PM
Lol my Jeep is at exline as well getting a alignment as well for the same problem lol


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Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: unleashd on June 13, 2018, 09:28:53 AM
Lol my Jeep is at exline as well getting a alignment as well for the same problem lol


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I haven't had time to work/get this work done :( How'd it go with Exline?


Title: Re: Wheel Alignment - Does this camber look right??
Post by: Dunejk13 on June 13, 2018, 10:15:07 AM
Idk yet still there


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