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September 16, 2019, 08:44:45 PM

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R3
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« Reply #135 on: June 06, 2019, 08:07:43 AM »

So I have now been living with the new  suspension for a while now.  I can say this  the improvement in on and off road ride is nothing short of amazing.  At some point in time  the club should pool the experience  within the membership and produce a  guide to building you Jeep.

Still fine tuning my spring rates but over all we are very close.  On road ride is dialed in to a soft comfy run while turning  up the compression adjusters  give some serious capability off road with a nice ride.   the amount of math involved to get this  "right" is huge. but once  you dial in on the "numbers"  the end result is  quite impressive.

What is next for the little red lego block?  First and foremost  replenish the vault that was robbed for the upgrades.   Next?  looking at off road  trailers with provisions for camping XVenture trailers are currently the lead.

if any of you  following have questions please feel free to reach out.

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Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
EVO long arms and King Coil overs
37 BFG KM3
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....


"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
Runner
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« Reply #136 on: June 06, 2019, 09:16:45 PM »

At some point in time  the club should pool the experience  within the membership and produce a  guide to building you Jeep.

This is a great idea in principle, but in practical application I don't believe it will help.  The reality is that people are going to do what they do, i.e. go for the less expensive option first.  I've learned over time that quality costs and I have to pay the price to get the results I want.  However, it wasn't a straight line to get there.

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2004 LJ, 1999 TJ Sporticon - "Owning a Jeep is a sickness. However, it's one I'll gladly endure!"
Gr8Dain
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I HATE RUST!!!!!
« Reply #137 on: June 06, 2019, 09:18:54 PM »

At some point in time  the club should pool the experience  within the membership and produce a  guide to building you Jeep.

This is a great idea in principle, but in practical application I don't believe it will help.  The reality is that people are going to do what they do, i.e. go for the less expensive option first.  I've learned over time that quality costs and I have to pay the price to get the results I want.  However, it wasn't a straight line to get there.

Haha. Yep. I am a cheap SOB for sure. My Scrambler is not near what I want it to be. I could not throw the $$ at it in one shot. I let it nickel and dime me instead.

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Dain

1984 CJ-8 Scrambler
3.5" lift
DD and trail toy

1949 CJ 3a - Stock - Garage queen

2015 JKU - Completely stock - Family mobile
R3
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« Reply #138 on: June 07, 2019, 06:35:42 AM »

At some point in time  the club should pool the experience  within the membership and produce a  guide to building you Jeep.

This is a great idea in principle, but in practical application I don't believe it will help.  The reality is that people are going to do what they do, i.e. go for the less expensive option first.  I've learned over time that quality costs and I have to pay the price to get the results I want.  However, it wasn't a straight line to get there.

So the goal of this idea is not to  convince someone that they have to spend big bucks to wheel.  Thinking more of a knowledge base and yes since not too many of us are independently wealthy  cost is always a factor.  The idea is  to provide the new to jeeps guy or gal some idea of what is available and the good and the bad of that approach.  Yes this can get a bit opinionated and flush with  less than accurate information.   I started down this road with my Jeep  I had been out of the loop for 25 years.  Started doing the research  on who has the best ____ for my intended purpose. My goal was to build it once and more forward.  But as many have read  I  had some issues that I could not live with anymore. Why  simple lack of knowledge on the new platform. Now out of the  one size fits all  shopping isle and from a chance meeting  getting schooled in suspension design, I have now what I was looking for in the first place.  Is this for everyone? Of course not, but it is good information to pass along?  Is there a less expensive way to get there?

I read on this forum and many others  "what should I do to my Jeep first?".  The answer should be a question, what will you do with your Jeep.  A trail rig build will certainly be much different from a grocery getter and pavement SUV.  As Drain Said  "I'm a cheap SOB".  So what is the budget to achieve the intended capability? Are you handy with a wrench? Do you have tools capable of performing the mods?  All valid questions.  Very seldom  is the answer  wheel your Jeep first and see what works and what need work.  Cheap  is what it is  and a level of performance equates to that.  Buy it cheap and have 5 spares  spend time replacing ( time is money too) or buy  the better and have one spare or no spares and not have to replace,  cost comparison is the same in the end.  

Budget is a huge concern for 99% of us.  What gets you the best bang for the buck?  Pros and Cons of a particular design.  How to make that  buck  stretch a bit longer.  I have seen some folks just throw money at their rigs and  every  day is a new direction.... I say good for them . Is it a build philosophy, well yes, but does it fit into most folks  budget? No.   There is always that concept of  (I have  10 dollars today what can I buy? vs  if I save a few months I can get the thing I want).  We have some very skilled folks within this club, but  new folks are not always going to ask the question on the open forum for fear of _____ ( fill in the blank).

My goal is to have a comfortable daily driver that is capable off road.  The build philosophy is to build it so I am not that guy  who is broken down on the trail holding the group up.  Rigs break I get that. I looked at the weak links and addressed them.  

Yes we have a forum. Some great information there, but you have to either ask the questions again and again or  search thru the posts until you find something of what you looking for. Collating that information in  one place might  be a bit easier for folks to find and read thru.

Just thoughts from the cheap seats.


Cheers


« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 07:54:14 AM by R3 »

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Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
EVO long arms and King Coil overs
37 BFG KM3
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....


"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
Gr8Dain
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I HATE RUST!!!!!
RRR
« Reply #139 on: June 07, 2019, 06:41:05 AM »

I actually do like the idea and support it.

And the answers can vary with the model of Jeep.

And while I am a self proclaimed Cheap SOB, I am not shy to spend the money when needed. Like my Sniper that you graciously helped me install.

Next is a 4:1 t-case that I am saving for. Then lockers. Then .......

I have wheeled enough to now know what I need to do. For now.

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Dain

1984 CJ-8 Scrambler
3.5" lift
DD and trail toy

1949 CJ 3a - Stock - Garage queen

2015 JKU - Completely stock - Family mobile
Redleg
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« Reply #140 on: June 07, 2019, 08:58:51 AM »

Its a good idea in theory and I am not against it at all however, the problem is people make decisions on their build based on the context of their mindset and experience at the time they make the decision.  Some of that is cost, but some of it is perception of what you will/can do with your Jeep. Personally, having done this all the wrong ways with multiple changes to my build on the JKU, I came into this thinking I would probably never wheel anything difficult.  Obviously, I had no clue.  So, I started out with 33s on 20" wheels because I thought they looked good and frankly, having the top down and a pretty Jeep was all I cared about at the time.  That changed the first time I wheeled and aired down on 20" rims - I knew I did it wrong right away.  A build list or a recommendations list would have maybe helped, but at the time I bought my Jeep, I wasn't a member and knew no one in the Jeep community.  Fast forward to today, my JKU evolved over time into a whole different Jeep, but that was not based on what others necessarily had done.  Some of it was, but it was mostly about my research and experiences on the trail.  I got addicted to the wheeling side of Jeeps and I came to a point where I realized that I wanted to go to the extreme levels of tons and 42s, etc.  The problem, as I saw it, was I was starting to push the limits of my Jeep off road and it was going to require a huge investment in time and money to get it where I wanted it to go.  Probably to the tune of another $30K or more to get on Coil overs, long arms and tons. Not to mention bigger tires, new wheels (8 lug), etc.  So, I changed the whole concept and decided I would build a TJ or LJ into a strictly off-road crawler.  Because let's face it, you can only go so far with a JKU or JLU and maintain it as a daily driver.  I wanted a rig capable of doing whatever I wanted and not worry about damage/inspections/payments, etc.  So, now I have purchased one built to do just that (Bought not built, because it was FAR cheaper and saves me a year of wrenching, etc).  The JKU is now being brought back down several notches where it belongs so we can use it as a daily driver.  But to get a JKU to that capability, it would be a near $80-$100K rig and I still wouldn't want to risk the level of damage that comes with the extreme trails.  That's ridiculous.  Anyway, my point is, build recommendations are great for people to get advice and have options to consider as they start out.  But, it will always come down to your experiences on the trail, how fast or if you evolve in the hobby, and what you can afford AND frankly, who has your ear and influences you.  I love wheeling and I love to wheel hard now.  Given that, I would never build a new Jeep beyond 35s and a 2.5-3.5 inch lift which, for me is a sea change in mentality.  It is far cheaper and practical to build an older generation Jeep to wheel and nine times out of ten, its not something that will have a payment or cost 45K to buy and you won't want to hurt it on the trail. If you wheel, you will always continue to evolve your Jeep.  Period.  You have done it, I have done it and so does everyone else.  The question is at what point do you realize a whole different direction is necessary so you can really do what you want to do and do it a lot cheaper.

I would personally prefer it is made clear that the best thing to do while building is to post up the questions about what you are thinking of doing, for those with experience to chime in and offer recommendations on each specific purchase or upgrade.  As you know a build can get complicated because you upgrade one thing, you may not know the impact it has on other components and that can lead to problems. So, if we want a build sheet, all that needs to be laid out and considered.

If you do decide to do one, my recommendation is you break it down into a couple categories:

1. Daily driver/ no offroad to light wheeling

2. Daily driver/ moderate wheeling

3. Extreme Wheeling

I recommend sticking to generalities on components, because when you start naming brands, it will become a battle of the opine with everyone's favorite stuff.

Sorry for the dissertation, just wanted to offer my .02 on this as someone who has made the novice mistakes on building jeeps.

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Bill
President - Black Goat Off-Road Club
2016 JKU Sahara -4.5 Metal Cloak Lock n Load long arm, 38" Milestars, Pro Rock 44, 4.88 gears/Arb Lockers etc.
1998 TJ Crawler -  back half'd, tons, LS, Atlas, ORI Struts and custom cage, 42s, etc.
R3
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« Reply #141 on: June 07, 2019, 10:23:20 AM »

Good discussions for those who have been there and done that.  I would offer  the approach of drive the Jeep and wheel as is first to decide what it is you want to change.  Watched A stock Rubi 4 door  with a very talented Marine  driving  it go places  I would have never thought a stock rig could go. I have also witnessed first hand a gal in a bone stock  JK with street tires do some amazing stuff. I think it is very easy to get caught up in the  I need bigger or beefier stuff to do more.  When the reality is most of the stock stuff work OK and will get you to amazing places.

I agree with your statement on mindset at decision time, information  at this point helps inform that mindset. Cost is the other driving  force to shape the direction. There is also a mindset of I want it now, to this end  some context on designing a build strategy can help shape informed decisions.  Technology is also changing as fast as I can type.  Hi grade light weight alloys are replacing steel in key components providing weight reduction and performance. in the end there is always someone who has a more capable machine or is more talented in using their equipment. Shouldn't be a competition, but more a learning experience. I see this the same way in the modification process.

I would have loved to have a Primer of some sort  for this new technology The JK/JKU/JL/JLU. it is a long way from my old CJ days in capability. Being able to  start some research into what work and why as well as why it work and why that is important  and would have saved  several thousand dollars and provided the desired result with less trial and error. If nothing else it would provide a knowledge base of information by which to further  research into ones build or even shape the direction  they might go.

Cheers

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Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
EVO long arms and King Coil overs
37 BFG KM3
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....


"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
sirjames186
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05 LJ
« Reply #142 on: June 07, 2019, 11:12:43 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but we all agree each build is different, so making a guide would be difficult. Therefore the option left is more of a "General principles of how to build your Jeep" type thing?

Wouldn't that be accomplished by some kind of forum where people can ask questions and get advice from other folks who have done that already? Learn from person X's mistake (Bill on 20s for example) but copy person Y's success (your finely tuned suspension)?

If only someone made such a place.....

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"I'm no longer ashamed to wheel with you." - Jeremy
Runner
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« Reply #143 on: June 07, 2019, 11:30:09 AM »

All kidding aside.  I do think the idea is a good one.  If we do something with it we should also consider the various platforms.  For example it takes very little to reliably run 35" tires on a JK/JL.  To do that on a TJ/YJ/CJ takes more work, and to do it on an XJ even more.  There are certainly some basic fundamentals that are universal.  For me it all starts with considering these kind of things first,

Maintenance
Driving Skills
Safety Equipment & Procedures
Vehicle Weight (Sprung and Unsprung)
Skids
Spare Parts and Trail Repairs

I've built a couple TJs for friends running 31" & 32" tires, on stock(ish) suspensions.  They were able to run Blue/Black trails at Rausch all day long with no issues.  All that said, my skeptical side says I've shared this with others, multiple times, and they generally go straight to bigger tires, new wheels, and a cheap lift.  Unfortunately, those things don't help you if your broken down on the side of the road, or, worse, the trail.  

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2004 LJ, 1999 TJ Sporticon - "Owning a Jeep is a sickness. However, it's one I'll gladly endure!"
unl1mtd
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King George, VA
« Reply #144 on: June 07, 2019, 11:37:59 AM »

So many factors and time is constantly bringing new brands and new tech to the market. Would be a daunting task to keep up with. Why not just encourage people to ask questions and all with experience make sure to share in a respectful manner?

Or if there is a very specific scenario where you have first hand experience just write up a review on it so it can be found by someone searching.

And I know we have done primer style guides for what to mod first and such. A new one of those generically sharing your two cents always make for good posts.

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Redleg
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« Reply #145 on: June 07, 2019, 11:55:55 AM »

All good points.  Cheers

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Bill
President - Black Goat Off-Road Club
2016 JKU Sahara -4.5 Metal Cloak Lock n Load long arm, 38" Milestars, Pro Rock 44, 4.88 gears/Arb Lockers etc.
1998 TJ Crawler -  back half'd, tons, LS, Atlas, ORI Struts and custom cage, 42s, etc.
R3
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Posts: 912
« Reply #146 on: June 07, 2019, 12:12:35 PM »

So many factors and time is constantly bringing new brands and new tech to the market. Would be a daunting task to keep up with. Why not just encourage people to ask questions and all with experience make sure to share in a respectful manner?

Or if there is a very specific scenario where you have first hand experience just write up a review on it so it can be found by someone searching.

And I know we have done primer style guides for what to mod first and such. A new one of those generically sharing your two cents always make for good posts.

Ask question in an open forum.... what do I ask? Separate fact from opinion.....New member  afraid to ask.... Bias of loyalty to manufactures where they work well or not... I see some who will and many who will not.

New stuff  is evolution. Jeep doesn't change the model  all that much  year to year, and suspension design and geometry  is fairly stable as well. while this could be a hefty initial effort  it would benefit new member for years to come.

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Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
EVO long arms and King Coil overs
37 BFG KM3
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....


"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
R3
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Posts: 912
« Reply #147 on: July 08, 2019, 07:28:00 AM »

Couple of  new additions
Bully Dog winch remote. My Smittybilt  remote was , well functional on the wire but  range off, was dismal.  Installed a Bully Dog bluetooth remote and wow  great range and easy to use. I did have to get inside the relay box and remove the Smittybilt  wireless control module, not had as it is just in there with  sticky tape and push on connectors.  No more  hanging a wire thru the window to operate the winch or being  tethered to the limited length of the control wire.  Remote comes with  2 12v batteries where as the Smittlybilt only has one and after  changing out 3 of them  trying to get the remote to work as advertised it was time for a change.

Teraflex  provided a rear rack for the back of the cabin. needed to organize the the back of the jeep and make access easier without  digging thru stuff.  The rack mounts to the OEM roll bar in factory holes. Sits just below the level of the rear seat back and provides a ton of storage.  Added some LED lights to the bottom  so I can see  under it  or at night.

Cooler ( Fridge/freeze slide)  is being added.  Working on a mounting system that will allow me to remove  if needed and not having to drill more hole in the floor.  This will allow the cooler  to slide out from under the rear rack for access and secure the cooler at the same time.

Cheers

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Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
EVO long arms and King Coil overs
37 BFG KM3
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....


"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
R3
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Posts: 912
« Reply #148 on: July 15, 2019, 09:40:09 AM »

Last weekend was a rough on.
Started out by getting rear ended in a Gas station exit. trail took i's toll on the BFGs,  punch a sidewall and bruised two more.  Time for new treads. $ wheel part in Richmond is installing a set of KM3 from BFG.  I am very interested in how well these work out.  Wallmart had a sale on the Milestar 38s 5 for $1027.00 and almost went that way save for  incurring further modification to fenders and such.  so for now  the BFG 37s will do.  $ wheel part has an offer , BFG pays the tax up to $100, free installation and no shipping...

Been meaning to replace the PS pump... thinking before  Rausch  and TFT it NEEDS to be done. new one in the box on the shelf... just need some new fluids.

Will have them on by the flag pole run and looking forward to the 27 Rausch run to see how they really perform.

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Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
EVO long arms and King Coil overs
37 BFG KM3
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....


"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
R3
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Committee: Trail Rides
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Posts: 912
« Reply #149 on: July 24, 2019, 11:26:39 AM »

Quick Note on the BFG KM3 MTs

They measure 36 1/4 at 30 PSI in diameter. Static  on the jeep they are 35 3/4 at 30PSI.

Tread is deeeep and figured they would wiggle around on the road, now with just over 800 miles the initial wiggle is gone.  While they are a bit louder than the KO2s  you can hardly notice with the windows down and cruising at 60mph.

Heading to Rausch this weekend to put them to the test.

Cheers

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Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
EVO long arms and King Coil overs
37 BFG KM3
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....


"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
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