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October 18, 2018, 04:00:29 PM

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Author Topic: CJ-7: Bad throwout bearing or what?  (Read 734 times)
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RustyZJ
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« on: January 17, 2018, 03:07:24 PM »

When it rains it pours! First my ZJ and it's trashed rear bearing problem and now my CJ-7 is acting up.

Ok, here's what I'm hearing. I don't really hear anything when I push the clutch pedal in but when I push in the clutch and put the trans in gear, I sometimes hear a sort of scraping noise. It's not consistent. Sometimes it does it and other times not. Also if I downshift I'll hear it before I let the clutch out. It seems to shift fine so I don't think it's syncros in the trans but I'm not sure. It shifts fine and doesn't make any noises just driving down the road (in any gear) and also idling in neutral. It's an '83 and has the T5 trans and the previous owner replaced the throwout bearing before I bought it. Any ideas?

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RattleTrap55
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 05:05:42 PM »

My first guess is the pilot bushing.

I went through 3 different pilot bushings that were listed for the T5 before I found one that was actually the right size. Luk (2) & one NAPA all were the wrong size... Each of these were too small for the T5 input shaft causing the bushing to spin in the fly wheel when the clutch was pressed in and the transmission in gear. That particular noise would go away when the transmission was not in gear. So check the inside diameter of the pilot bushing vs the input shaft. The ID of the bushing should be between 0.002" and 0.003" larger than the OD of T5 input shaft.

The correct pilot bushing, for me it turned out to be a "Nation PB79".

I got pretty good at dropping and reinstalling the T5 & Dana 300 from doing it several time over a 2 week period chasing a output shaft seal leak - Glad to help if needed...

Garner

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3.5 Lift on 33's
4.2L w/HESCO MFI & Howard Cam
T-5 & Dana 300
Spartan Locker

2018 JKU - box stock
RustyZJ
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 08:11:11 PM »

My first guess is the pilot bushing.

I went through 3 different pilot bushings that were listed for the T5 before I found one that was actually the right size. Luk (2) & one NAPA all were the wrong size... Each of these were too small for the T5 input shaft causing the bushing to spin in the fly wheel when the clutch was pressed in and the transmission in gear. That particular noise would go away when the transmission was not in gear. So check the inside diameter of the pilot bushing vs the input shaft. The ID of the bushing should be between 0.002" and 0.003" larger than the OD of T5 input shaft.

The correct pilot bushing, for me it turned out to be a "Nation PB79".

I got pretty good at dropping and reinstalling the T5 & Dana 300 from doing it several time over a 2 week period chasing a output shaft seal leak - Glad to help if needed...

Garner

Thanks Garner. I wondered about the pilot bushing but somehow reasoned that it had to be something else, even the trans going bad but it sounds like yours was doing the same thing mine is. Now that I think about it from that angle, it makes sense. My biggest problem right now is the CJ7 is all I have to drive. The grand Cherokee runs, drives, etc, but the rear is making so much noise I'm afraid to drive it anymore until I can get it fixed (soon I hope). My wife works at home so I can use her 4runner if I have to. I just hate driving it.

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highlandercj-7
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2018, 07:39:56 AM »

The throw out bearing can still be the issue. Most of them are junk any more. The LUK clutch is great but their throw out stinks. I replaced the one in their kit with the best one NAPA has and it lasted a long time. I just replaced my T-18 with another and got a new pilot bushing from Novak. I also replaced the NAPA throw out with another just like it, because it was out and showing a little wear. I do not think the pilot is causing noise but if it's jacked your input could be getting messed up. Good luck this is a royal pain on CJ's, since it's so labor intensive to get to the potential problems.

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HighlanderCJ-7
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2018, 09:14:50 AM »

My first guess is the pilot bushing.

I went through 3 different pilot bushings that were listed for the T5 before I found one that was actually the right size. Luk (2) & one NAPA all were the wrong size... Each of these were too small for the T5 input shaft causing the bushing to spin in the fly wheel when the clutch was pressed in and the transmission in gear. That particular noise would go away when the transmission was not in gear. So check the inside diameter of the pilot bushing vs the input shaft. The ID of the bushing should be between 0.002" and 0.003" larger than the OD of T5 input shaft.

The correct pilot bushing, for me it turned out to be a "Nation PB79".

I got pretty good at dropping and reinstalling the T5 & Dana 300 from doing it several time over a 2 week period chasing a output shaft seal leak - Glad to help if needed...

Garner
This makes most sense since you do not hear it when the input shaft and pilot bering are spinning at the same speed such as when the trans is in neutral and upshifting but makes noise when there is a difference in speed.

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1998 TJ JEEBA Jeep
RattleTrap55
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84 CJ7
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2018, 11:18:35 AM »

As Highlander pointed out, you are never really sure until you pull things apart. A new pilot bushing is $4 and throw out bearing is $16-$40 depending on brand & source. Dropping the transmissions/transfer case and replacing both or either is a straight forward task that can be done in an afternoon. 

If it is the transmission then you are looking a few more dollars and time... The T5 is one the most common 5-speed transmission built so parts are easy to come by and reasonably priced. The transmission is easy to rebuild with few special tools needed. But you will need to completely disassemble it to really know what parts need to be replaced. The gears appear to hold up well but the shafts are less durable. Any wear in the bearing can result in serious shaft damage, ask me how I know....



or



Let me know if you need help.

Garner

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3.5 Lift on 33's
4.2L w/HESCO MFI & Howard Cam
T-5 & Dana 300
Spartan Locker

2018 JKU - box stock
RustyZJ
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2018, 06:51:27 PM »

Since my wife works at home, I have the benefit of using her 4runner to get to and from work. Also, I talked to Scott at OCD and he's going to try and squeeze me in next week to get the rear fixed in my ZJ so the stress is off me to get the CJ7 fixed. Once I have the ZJ back I can drop the trans on the CJ7 and see what's going on.

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RattleTrap55
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84 CJ7
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2018, 10:03:55 AM »

Warhorse,

Understand - my offer has no expiration date.

Garner

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3.5 Lift on 33's
4.2L w/HESCO MFI & Howard Cam
T-5 & Dana 300
Spartan Locker

2018 JKU - box stock
RustyZJ
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Posts: 235
Formally Known as Warhorse
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2018, 11:20:44 AM »

Warhorse,

Understand - my offer has no expiration date.

Garner

At this point, I will almost certainly take you up on it. I know I don't have the puller for the bushing, etc. Right now my head is spinning trying to figure out who hates me. First the Grand Cherokee, then the CJ-7 and now the check engine light just popped on in the 4Runner! At least I can drive the 4Runner with the light on (P0420 code - common problem apparently), it's just annoying. I swear EVERYTHING that ever goes wrong with that 4Runner ends up costing $1000 or more. I want to set fire to the P.O.S. but my wife loves it and won't part with it.  Dunno?

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RattleTrap55
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84 CJ7
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2018, 04:29:14 PM »

That sucks - I hate replacing O2 sensors it always becomes a blood bath for me.... They are always in the worst possible location.

Good luck and remember "happy wife, happy life" Laughing

Garner

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3.5 Lift on 33's
4.2L w/HESCO MFI & Howard Cam
T-5 & Dana 300
Spartan Locker

2018 JKU - box stock
RustyZJ
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Member 2018
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Posts: 235
Formally Known as Warhorse
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2018, 06:04:31 PM »

I've got the tools for the O2 sensors floating around this wreck of a garage someplace. I really need to clean this place up! Oh well. The "cure" that I keep finding for the P0420 is a $3 capacitor and resistor soldered in to the wires for the O2 sensor. I might try that as apparently (according to everything I've read) the real problem is the catalytic converters are worn out. I cleared the codes and so far the light hasn't come back on but even if it does, I'm not going to worry about it until emission inspection time. It runs fine otherwise.

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