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August 16, 2018, 06:59:07 PM

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Author Topic: SKIM question for service advisor or master tech....  (Read 279 times)
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///BHRpowered
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« on: July 18, 2018, 05:36:39 PM »

2000 WJ, 4.7

Almost nothing on this issue online, but I'm starting to think my stalling issues are related to the SKIM going bad (Sentry key immobilizer module)

BUT, I want to make sure my starter isn't also going bad. Got a nice tan sitting on side of road after WJ stalled and would not restart.

So, can a (I assume dealer only) use a DRB scan tool to test/validate the SKIM while still on vehicle to rule it out AND if the SKIM fails, or goes into lock down mode does it prevent the vehicle from cranking? or will it allow a crank, but no start up??? The cranking seems to be intermittant, banged on starter, did nothing, let it cool, started up. turned it off and started 2-4 more times then nothing. When it fails to crank I hear NOTHING. No relay click, nothing. It's also the factory original one with 212k on it.

What I'v found is will likely crank, die after 2 seconds and display the little key icon. WJ isn't doing that.

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"If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I would be unstoppable" - ///BHRpowered
"Watching the two black Millenias disappear over the horizon in front of the helplessly outraced Chevy was a treat for the X-man" - Xedosman
"I am not looking to take over the world like BHR" - cwkann
Jeepsnbuses
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 08:14:14 AM »

This is an interesting thought...I had thought that DRB scanners were a dealer-only tool, but of course now it looks like you can buy some "exact OEM"-capable scanners online as well.  I've just never looked for one. 

I don't hop on here as often as I used to so forgive me if you've answered these questions elsewhere, but test the NSS?  Perhaps even pull the starter and bench test it in your garage?  I realize those don't apply to your stalling issue but are just an initial thought.  You've probably considered them.

Some more quick Googling led me to this link: https://www.autozone.com/repairguides/PT-Cruiser-2001-2005/Electronic-Engine-Emission-Controls/Sentry-Key-Immobilizer-SKI-System/_/P-0996b43f802e2b80#

It's for a PT Cruiser but I assume you've got a similar design/setup in your WJ.  Another idea that I had when initially reading your post was a bad key, perhaps.  Sounds like the RF chip in your security key needs to be constantly detected within 1/3" of a SKIM antenna, and if it isn't detected or receives an invalid RF signal it will "disable" engine operation.  Who knows if that means disabling before start, or disabling in all circumstances.  I would think it would be a massive safety hazard if failing keys forced vehicles to stall, so perhaps the other end of this RF system (SKIM module itself) is bad after all.  It seems like this RF comm is definitely a constant two-way street, though.

The article also says that the SKIM module sends a handshake-type signal to the cluster during instrument panel/bulb test when the key is turned to ON but the engine isn't started, showing a VTSS light.  This part may only apply to the PT Cruiser that this article considers...not sure about that one but it may be worth a look.  I would think this VTSS light would ring a bell for you if you've seen it.  It says if the system detects a fault in the PTC's case, this VTSS light will stay on and it sounds like yours is NOT on. 

Either way, this was an interesting read and I feel like I know a lot more about the SKIM setup in Chrysler vehicles now...

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2002 TJ Sport
Tow rig: 1973 Thomas school bus RV conversion. It's slow.

- Adam
RFH_98TJ
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 09:43:38 AM »

My CHEVY van with an improper key (I would assume a damaged one too) will not send spark or run the fuel pump.  It will however let you crank the engine all day.  This prevents stealing by using a screw driver to just turn the ignition.

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98 TJ 4.0 Sport 5-speed - 4" lift on 33s, 4.56 on D30 with Lock Right and Ford 8.8 LS, more stuff to come

- Frank
///BHRpowered
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 09:52:53 AM »

Jeepsnbuses - Thank you.

I have never heard of a vehicle stalling out, except for keyless type systems if you say, drive off without the key. I'v tried both of my key's and had the same issues, the key light comes on, does its test and then goes out. I disconnected the remote start since its possible it was sending a false signal or preventing start. So good news is now every time it cranks it does seem to start. If a bad SKIM system allows crank but no start then it's possible this could be just dumb luck or a start going bad combined with a stalling issue on top of remote starter going bad.

I have heard stories of neutral safety switches causing stalls and certainly preventing cranking  *edit* So apparently the 45RE transmission doesn't use a NSS, instead it uses a transmission range sensor, and when they go bad you have all kinds of weird issues. In case anyone finds this years in the future

Which all sucks since it was perfectly fine when I parked it a few months ago.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 10:40:29 AM by ///BHRpowered »

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"If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I would be unstoppable" - ///BHRpowered
"Watching the two black Millenias disappear over the horizon in front of the helplessly outraced Chevy was a treat for the X-man" - Xedosman
"I am not looking to take over the world like BHR" - cwkann
Jeepsnbuses
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 06:42:35 AM »

Jeepsnbuses - Thank you.

I have never heard of a vehicle stalling out, except for keyless type systems if you say, drive off without the key. I'v tried both of my key's and had the same issues, the key light comes on, does its test and then goes out. I disconnected the remote start since its possible it was sending a false signal or preventing start. So good news is now every time it cranks it does seem to start. If a bad SKIM system allows crank but no start then it's possible this could be just dumb luck or a start going bad combined with a stalling issue on top of remote starter going bad.

I have heard stories of neutral safety switches causing stalls and certainly preventing cranking  *edit* So apparently the 45RE transmission doesn't use a NSS, instead it uses a transmission range sensor, and when they go bad you have all kinds of weird issues. In case anyone finds this years in the future

Which all sucks since it was perfectly fine when I parked it a few months ago.

Well it seems like that key light on your dash and the VTSS light could be one in the same.  How old is the remote start?  And dumb question...but it is aftermarket, right?  I wonder if your problems will stay away after having disconnected the remote start.

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2002 TJ Sport
Tow rig: 1973 Thomas school bus RV conversion. It's slow.

- Adam
///BHRpowered
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2018, 05:42:42 PM »

Remote start is aftermarket, and older. Installed summer-ish 2006?? Since disconnecting it I don't hear the humming, and every time it cranks it will start. But still stalls out and/or fails to crank. I ordered a new starter and new OEM map sensor. Next monday I start huge, massive new promotion, so probably won't get to Jeep until it's cold again.

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"If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I would be unstoppable" - ///BHRpowered
"Watching the two black Millenias disappear over the horizon in front of the helplessly outraced Chevy was a treat for the X-man" - Xedosman
"I am not looking to take over the world like BHR" - cwkann
Jeepsnbuses
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 03:24:42 PM »

Remote start is aftermarket, and older. Installed summer-ish 2006?? Since disconnecting it I don't hear the humming, and every time it cranks it will start. But still stalls out and/or fails to crank. I ordered a new starter and new OEM map sensor. Next monday I start huge, massive new promotion, so probably won't get to Jeep until it's cold again.

Wow! I honestly don't know if I've ever heard of a 12 year old remote start system.  Sounds like you got your $'s worth though...

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2002 TJ Sport
Tow rig: 1973 Thomas school bus RV conversion. It's slow.

- Adam
///BHRpowered
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 05:03:22 PM »

Remote start is aftermarket, and older. Installed summer-ish 2006?? Since disconnecting it I don't hear the humming, and every time it cranks it will start. But still stalls out and/or fails to crank. I ordered a new starter and new OEM map sensor. Next monday I start huge, massive new promotion, so probably won't get to Jeep until it's cold again.

Wow! I honestly don't know if I've ever heard of a 12 year old remote start system.  Sounds like you got your $'s worth though...

Really? I mean, it's an 18 y/o vehicle, what do people do with them? just throw them out? I have a 16y/o sound system in another car working just fine, HU in F150 is a solid 14 y/o.  Of course I doubt i'd ever be able to find a replacement "brain"  It's an Audiovox prestige APS905. Installed by Myer-emco just to further date it.

I kind of have this problem where I buy stuff for cars I thought I would buy, or sold and think I'll buy again. I have an 18y/o remote start system APS55TW and a pristine, ultra rare Pioneer DEH-50DH, and skid plates should I ever buy another ZJ
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 05:06:40 PM by ///BHRpowered »

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"If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I would be unstoppable" - ///BHRpowered
"Watching the two black Millenias disappear over the horizon in front of the helplessly outraced Chevy was a treat for the X-man" - Xedosman
"I am not looking to take over the world like BHR" - cwkann
Jeepsnbuses
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Posts: 1111
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2018, 07:59:41 AM »

Remote start is aftermarket, and older. Installed summer-ish 2006?? Since disconnecting it I don't hear the humming, and every time it cranks it will start. But still stalls out and/or fails to crank. I ordered a new starter and new OEM map sensor. Next monday I start huge, massive new promotion, so probably won't get to Jeep until it's cold again.

Wow! I honestly don't know if I've ever heard of a 12 year old remote start system.  Sounds like you got your $'s worth though...

Really? I mean, it's an 18 y/o vehicle, what do people do with them? just throw them out? I have a 16y/o sound system in another car working just fine, HU in F150 is a solid 14 y/o.  Of course I doubt i'd ever be able to find a replacement "brain"  It's an Audiovox prestige APS905. Installed by Myer-emco just to further date it.

I kind of have this problem where I buy stuff for cars I thought I would buy, or sold and think I'll buy again. I have an 18y/o remote start system APS55TW and a pristine, ultra rare Pioneer DEH-50DH, and skid plates should I ever buy another ZJ

True, I mean I guess they never really would have a reason to fail...let alone be thrown out.  Maybe I just don't hear about old remote start systems as often as you hear about new factory systems nowadays.  Either way, it's interesting that it sounds like it was somehow interfering with your ignition signal.

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2002 TJ Sport
Tow rig: 1973 Thomas school bus RV conversion. It's slow.

- Adam
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