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December 09, 2018, 05:03:46 PM

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R3
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Posts: 554
« Reply #105 on: June 26, 2018, 06:56:30 AM »

Sorry miss understood... Yes the 17/18 there are a few things to upgrade.
Cheers

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

No worries. Iím just trying to figure out what flaws you see with stock. Of course there are upgrades to make on any Jeep but if Iím going to buy a vehicle, pull off the lot and immediately drive it onto a trail to wheel it.... thereís only one vehicle Iíd do that in stock and that the wrangler (maybe a couple other but they are out of my price range). Saying there were short cuts taken because stock parts donít like having parts run on them that they werenít designed to run is pretty unfair. Even Hummers didnít come stock with a snorkel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stock the Rubicon is a pretty good vehicel from the factory, but as ususal the OEM  takes some liberties with production and is constrained by  the green eyeshade monsters.
Some of the things I have found to be short of the mark:

Factory Ball joints. The wear material is Plastic, from day one my Rubicon wandered all of the road. Dealer replaced  right side Ball joints at no charge but not the left 4000 miles on my NEW Jeep at this point. The left were "within tollerance" . Another 500 miles later they were no longer within tollerance and needed replacing.  I finially replaced them with Dynatrack Ball joints the wandering issues were contained.  Factory Ball joints  are worthless with stock tires and rims.

Brakes on this 5000# unit were spongy from Day one. There is a lot of pedal travel and not a very secure feeling that the rig will stop well. Again this is in stock trim. This was addressed when I replaced the Ball joints with a set of  four corner Big Brake  rotors from Dyna track. The rig stops on a dime now.

Tie rod... guess it is Ok for a mall crawler but  I can see it deflect on heavy load and the tie rod ends  are built the same way the ball joints are plastic lined.  Replaced these with a Metal Cloak  tie rod  with 1 ton ends.
Drag link is the same as the tie rod flexible and joints are crap.  Replaced that with the Metal cloak drag link that comes withthe game changer 4.5 inch lift kit.

Under hood temps are high and the silly little vents  on the hood  are there for show. Cut the back out of the vent and now it at least lets heat out.
To you note on the snorkle, Clean fresh air is always desirable for good engine performance. The down side in a rig  like a Jeep is  water intrusion. There are many cases of  hydro lock and ruined motors. So how to get better cool air  into the little engine and retain some degree of water protection? Move the air intake outside of the engine compartment.  I went back and forth on the snorkle, but it has benifits or moving the air intake up more toward cleaner air. The kit I installed  I noticed a seat of the pants  improvment  in performance " less throttle input for the same output" .

Steering box.... Bill  relayed his comments on breaking his box... not stock config got it. did some research and did find that this is an issue off roading without huge tires and lifts. Enough so that it warrented in my mind to replace with something more bullet proof.  PSC  gear  fixed this issue.  No need for  hydraulic cylinders a good stout box and an attitude of  "lets not do stupid things" for this build is build.

Spare tire carrier, know issues with the tailgate.... Stock tires not just over sized.... smittybilt spare tire carrier  that is frame mounted solved that problem.

Steering knuckles... This is a Dana 44  front end and on the Recon it gets beefed up, but they still put the D30 knuckles on it? WTF? I have 20k mile on R3 and the front wheels have a bunch of negitive camber. Yes I am running  BFG 37s ( really 35.5) and light Fuel wheels most of the miles  have been on road.... the off road has been slow and deliberate yet these knuckles are bent....... Cheap move on FCA to save a dollar...

I replaced the Drive shafts  due to articulation  achieve with the MC 4.5 inch lift... Shafts are fine but how do you rebuild that on the trail if you break it?

Now before you  fire back with  your comments,

Back a few years ago  I modified several of my F250 pickups. 69-72 vintage Dana 44HD axles up front  with Bigger tires 33-36inch  on 16.6 inch rims. And ran them everywhere to include attachments like a 7ft wide snow plow. I was never concerned about the suspension or steering gear. I off roaded those rigs much harder than you guys in the goats do to include mud slinging events.  Funny the problems I had were operator induced not equipment malfunctions.


So I did have a goal in mind when building my Jeep. I wanted a bullet proof trail rig that I can drive everyday.  I am a technical driver, slow is good slower is better and there are somethings  that my rig is not equiped to do. Yes like all things it has limitations. I  do not have the deep pockets that some do to be able to go thru iteration after iteration after iteration of a build to produce a final product. That is very expensive process and I don't have a second income that can support that. So my goal was as stated and I researched equipment and talked to suppliers before  going forward.  Going thru FCA for parts  was not a cost effective option and did not provide the quality  and performance I was looking for. I hope this answers your and Kens questions on my initial comments.  

I am very happy with my little red lego block and the off road performance is amazing to me much more capable than anything I had driven to date.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 09:50:59 AM by VA6489 »

Logged

Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
4.5 Metal cloak
37 BFG ATs
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....
next?

"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
Jeepin_Donnie
Online
Club Vice President
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Posts: 723
« Reply #106 on: June 26, 2018, 09:34:45 AM »

Sorry miss understood... Yes the 17/18 there are a few things to upgrade.
Cheers

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

No worries. Iím just trying to figure out what flaws you see with stock. Of course there are upgrades to make on any Jeep but if Iím going to buy a vehicle, pull off the lot and immediately drive it onto a trail to wheel it.... thereís only one vehicle Iíd do that in stock and that the wrangler (maybe a couple other but they are out of my price range). Saying there were short cuts taken because stock parts donít like having parts run on them that they werenít designed to run is pretty unfair. Even Hummers didnít come stock with a snorkel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stock the Rubicon is a pretty good vehicel from the factory, but as ususall the OEM  takes some liberties with production and is constrained by  the green eyeshade monsters.
Some of the things I have found to be short of the mark:
Factory Ball joints. The wear material is Plastic, from day one my Rubicon wandered all of the road. Dealer replaced  right side Ball joints at no charge but not the left 4000 miles on my NEW Jeep at this point. The left were "within tollerance" . Another 500 mile slater they were no longer within tollerance and needed replacing.  I finially replaced them with Dynatrack Ball joints the wandering issues were contained.  Factory Ball joints  are worthless with stock tires and rims.
Brakes on this 5000# unit were spongy from Day one. There is a lot of pedal travel and not a very secure feeling that the rig will stop well. Again this is in stock trim. This was addressed when I replaced the Ball joints with a set of  four corner Big Brake  rotors from Dyna track. The rig stops on a dime now.

Tie rod... guess it is Ok for a mall crawler but  I can see it deflect on heavy load and the tie rod ends  are built the same way the ball joints are plastic lined.  Replaced these with a Metal Cloak  tie rod  with 1 ton ends.
Drag link is the same as the tie rod flexible and joints are crap.  Replacedthat with the Metal cloak drag link that comes withthe game changer 4.5 inch lift kit.

Under hood temps are high and the silly little vents  on the hood  are there for show. Cut the back out of the vent and now it at least lets heat out.
To you note on the snorkle, Clean fresh air is always desirable for good engine performance. The down side in a rig  like a Jeep is  water intrusion. There are many cases of  hydro lock and ruined motors. So how to get better  cool air  into the little engine and retain some degree of water protection. Move the air intake outside of the engine compartment.  I went back and forth on the snorkle, but it has benifits or moving the air intake up more toward cleaner air. The kit I installed  I noticed a seat of the pants  improvment  in performance " less throttle input for the same output" .

Steering box.... Bill  relayed his comments on breaking his box... not stock config got it. did some research and did find that this is an issue off roading without huge tires and lifts. Enough so that it warnted in my mind to replace with something more bullet proof.  PSC  gear  fixed this issue.  No need for  hydraulic cylinders a good stout box and an attitude of  "lets not do stupid things" for this build is build.

Spare tire carrier, know issues withthe tailgate.... Stock tires not just over sized.... smittybilt spare tire carrier  that is frame mounted solved that problem.

Steerign knuckles... This is a Dana 44  front end and on the Recon it gets beefed up, but they still put the D30 knuckles on it? WTF? I have 20k mile on R3 and the front wheels have a bunch of negitive camber. Yes I am running  BFG 37s ( really 35.5) and light Fuel wheels most of the miles  have been on road.... the off road has been slow and deliberate yet these knuckles are bent....... Cheap move on FCA to save a dollar...

I replaced teh Drive shafts  due to articulation  achieve withthe MC 4.5 inch lift... Shafts are fine but how do you rebuild that on the trail if you break it?

Now before you  fire back with  your comments,

Back  a few years ago  I modified several of my F250 pickups. 69-72 vintage Dana 44HD axles up front  with Bigger tires 33-36inch  on 16.6 inch rims. And ran them everywhere to include attachments like a 7ft wide snow plow. I was never concerned about the suspension or steering gear. I off roaded those rigs much harder than you guys in the goats do to include mud slinging events.  Funy the problems I had were operator induced not equipment malfunctions.


So I did have a goal in mind when building my Jeep. I wanted a bullet proof trail rig that I can drive everyday.  I am a technical driver, slwo is good slower is better and there are some thign  that my rig is not equiped to do. Yes liek all things it has limitations. I  do not have the deep pockets that some do to be able to go thru iteration after iteration after iteration of a build to produce  a final product. That is very expensive process and I don't have a second income that can support that. So my goal was as stated and I researched equipment and talked to suppliers before  going forward.  Going thru FCA for parts  was not a cost effective option and did not provide the quality  and performance I was looking for. I hope this answers your and Kens questions on my initial comments.  

I am very happy with my little red lego blockand the off road performance is amazing to me much more capable than anything I had driven to date.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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KensHardware
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Posts: 242
« Reply #107 on: June 26, 2018, 11:33:18 AM »

Sorry miss understood... Yes the 17/18 there are a few things to upgrade.
Cheers

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

No worries. Iím just trying to figure out what flaws you see with stock. Of course there are upgrades to make on any Jeep but if Iím going to buy a vehicle, pull off the lot and immediately drive it onto a trail to wheel it.... thereís only one vehicle Iíd do that in stock and that the wrangler (maybe a couple other but they are out of my price range). Saying there were short cuts taken because stock parts donít like having parts run on them that they werenít designed to run is pretty unfair. Even Hummers didnít come stock with a snorkel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stock the Rubicon is a pretty good vehicel from the factory, but as ususal the OEM  takes some liberties with production and is constrained by  the green eyeshade monsters.
Some of the things I have found to be short of the mark:

Factory Ball joints. The wear material is Plastic, from day one my Rubicon wandered all of the road. Dealer replaced  right side Ball joints at no charge but not the left 4000 miles on my NEW Jeep at this point. The left were "within tollerance" . Another 500 miles later they were no longer within tollerance and needed replacing.  I finially replaced them with Dynatrack Ball joints the wandering issues were contained.  Factory Ball joints  are worthless with stock tires and rims.

Brakes on this 5000# unit were spongy from Day one. There is a lot of pedal travel and not a very secure feeling that the rig will stop well. Again this is in stock trim. This was addressed when I replaced the Ball joints with a set of  four corner Big Brake  rotors from Dyna track. The rig stops on a dime now.

Tie rod... guess it is Ok for a mall crawler but  I can see it deflect on heavy load and the tie rod ends  are built the same way the ball joints are plastic lined.  Replaced these with a Metal Cloak  tie rod  with 1 ton ends.
Drag link is the same as the tie rod flexible and joints are crap.  Replaced that with the Metal cloak drag link that comes withthe game changer 4.5 inch lift kit.

Under hood temps are high and the silly little vents  on the hood  are there for show. Cut the back out of the vent and now it at least lets heat out.
To you note on the snorkle, Clean fresh air is always desirable for good engine performance. The down side in a rig  like a Jeep is  water intrusion. There are many cases of  hydro lock and ruined motors. So how to get better cool air  into the little engine and retain some degree of water protection? Move the air intake outside of the engine compartment.  I went back and forth on the snorkle, but it has benifits or moving the air intake up more toward cleaner air. The kit I installed  I noticed a seat of the pants  improvment  in performance " less throttle input for the same output" .

Steering box.... Bill  relayed his comments on breaking his box... not stock config got it. did some research and did find that this is an issue off roading without huge tires and lifts. Enough so that it warrented in my mind to replace with something more bullet proof.  PSC  gear  fixed this issue.  No need for  hydraulic cylinders a good stout box and an attitude of  "lets not do stupid things" for this build is build.

Spare tire carrier, know issues with the tailgate.... Stock tires not just over sized.... smittybilt spare tire carrier  that is frame mounted solved that problem.

Steering knuckles... This is a Dana 44  front end and on the Recon it gets beefed up, but they still put the D30 knuckles on it? WTF? I have 20k mile on R3 and the front wheels have a bunch of negitive camber. Yes I am running  BFG 37s ( really 35.5) and light Fuel wheels most of the miles  have been on road.... the off road has been slow and deliberate yet these knuckles are bent....... Cheap move on FCA to save a dollar...

I replaced the Drive shafts  due to articulation  achieve with the MC 4.5 inch lift... Shafts are fine but how do you rebuild that on the trail if you break it?

Now before you  fire back with  your comments,

Back a few years ago  I modified several of my F250 pickups. 69-72 vintage Dana 44HD axles up front  with Bigger tires 33-36inch  on 16.6 inch rims. And ran them everywhere to include attachments like a 7ft wide snow plow. I was never concerned about the suspension or steering gear. I off roaded those rigs much harder than you guys in the goats do to include mud slinging events.  Funny the problems I had were operator induced not equipment malfunctions.


So I did have a goal in mind when building my Jeep. I wanted a bullet proof trail rig that I can drive everyday.  I am a technical driver, slow is good slower is better and there are somethings  that my rig is not equiped to do. Yes like all things it has limitations. I  do not have the deep pockets that some do to be able to go thru iteration after iteration after iteration of a build to produce a final product. That is very expensive process and I don't have a second income that can support that. So my goal was as stated and I researched equipment and talked to suppliers before  going forward.  Going thru FCA for parts  was not a cost effective option and did not provide the quality  and performance I was looking for. I hope this answers your and Kens questions on my initial comments.  

I am very happy with my little red lego block and the off road performance is amazing to me much more capable than anything I had driven to date.
Yeah I was just confused if you were talking about a JL or JK that was it. That's a ton of information man.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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R3
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Member 2018 VA4WD/BRC
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Posts: 554
« Reply #108 on: June 26, 2018, 12:52:15 PM »

Just trying to help brother. I know the JL have a new front axle with aluminum knuckles... The JK line still has the Dana 30/44 axles.

Cheers

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Logged

Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
4.5 Metal cloak
37 BFG ATs
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....
next?

"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
R3
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Member 2018 VA4WD/BRC
*
Posts: 554
« Reply #109 on: July 31, 2018, 06:23:56 AM »

it had been a whiel since I  have done anything to R3.  Thinking of a set of Metal Cloak  Highline Fenders in the 10 in wide version.  I like the articulation  the little red lego block has but  those meats still  chew on the fenders a bit at max flex.

$1700.00 plus paint is a bit much, but I have to do body work anyway.  Anyone interested in the bushwacker fender flares I have now drop me a line.

Logged

Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
4.5 Metal cloak
37 BFG ATs
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....
next?

"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
R3
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Member 2018 VA4WD/BRC
*
Posts: 554
« Reply #110 on: December 06, 2018, 07:50:18 AM »

 so it has been a while  since the little red lego block has had some love. A few new bits are finding there way on. ORO  builds a dual torsion bar sway bar and since the OEM  electric unit has  gotten a bit loose ( read broken again)  the new sway bar has found it way in. Combining the best of stiff  sway bar as well as a flexible sway bar at the flip of a switch.  it has been under R3 now for a week and is working  fantastic. 

Also while at the shop, I was offered a Gorilla Glass front windshield . The OEM was  gettng to the point where seeing thru it  in full sun was a challenge.  50  Gorillia glas windshields have been built as a trial run. Mine is #47. Current pricing was $350 installed, when Dow Corning begins production this same  windshield dwill be over $900. The advantage of the G glass is it resists the road abrasion that kills teh stock  glass. We'll see, mine needed replacing anyway.

Metal cloak has been good to me as a company supporting their product.  I have had a few issues but most have been resolved  thru  conversations with the company directly.  Their customer support,  company direct, is the best I have ever seen.  They know how to take care of their customers and I highly recommend them. As with everything I own it gets modified with more advanced technology. Looking at soem longer distance run to wheelin places a bit further down the road  I decided to up date the ride on R3.  EVO manufacturing makes a Long arm  hi clearance kit  for the JKUR, it will be a full replacement for the Metal Cloak short arm system.  While the link arms can be installed  withthe MC springs and shocks, I have elected to kick it up one more knotch and run coilovers at all 4 corners.

Soon R3 will be on EVO Mfgr hi clearance long arms and a set of King IBP coilovers. Thank you Santa...

Will snap some pictures  this week of the ORO sway bar set up then after  Christmas the new  suspension....

Logged

Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
4.5 Metal cloak
37 BFG ATs
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....
next?

"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
Gr8Dain
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BOD
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Posts: 11346
I HATE RUST!!!!!
« Reply #111 on: December 06, 2018, 07:54:46 PM »

Looking forward to the longer term reports on the windshield!

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Dain

1984 CJ-8 Scrambler
3.5" lift
DD and trail toy

1949 CJ 3a - Stock - Garage queen

2015 JKU - Completely stock - Family mobile
R3
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Posts: 554
« Reply #112 on: December 07, 2018, 08:47:36 AM »

Glass is much lighter than the OEM and actually thinner.  So far  I have had a few stones bounce off and got blasted on the way home  and hte glass is still perfect.

Touch base  again in Feb and I will submit some pictures and give a report on progress.

Logged

Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
4.5 Metal cloak
37 BFG ATs
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....
next?

"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
overhead
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Club President
*
Posts: 9813
Crap, someone call Trevor.
« Reply #113 on: December 07, 2018, 09:19:48 AM »

so it has been a while  since the little red lego block has had some love. A few new bits are finding there way on. ORO  builds a dual torsion bar sway bar and since the OEM  electric unit has  gotten a bit loose ( read broken again)  the new sway bar has found it way in. Combining the best of stiff  sway bar as well as a flexible sway bar at the flip of a switch.  it has been under R3 now for a week and is working  fantastic. 

Also while at the shop, I was offered a Gorilla Glass front windshield . The OEM was  gettng to the point where seeing thru it  in full sun was a challenge.  50  Gorillia glas windshields have been built as a trial run. Mine is #47. Current pricing was $350 installed, when Dow Corning begins production this same  windshield dwill be over $900. The advantage of the G glass is it resists the road abrasion that kills teh stock  glass. We'll see, mine needed replacing anyway.

Metal cloak has been good to me as a company supporting their product.  I have had a few issues but most have been resolved  thru  conversations with the company directly.  Their customer support,  company direct, is the best I have ever seen.  They know how to take care of their customers and I highly recommend them. As with everything I own it gets modified with more advanced technology. Looking at soem longer distance run to wheelin places a bit further down the road  I decided to up date the ride on R3.  EVO manufacturing makes a Long arm  hi clearance kit  for the JKUR, it will be a full replacement for the Metal Cloak short arm system.  While the link arms can be installed  withthe MC springs and shocks, I have elected to kick it up one more knotch and run coilovers at all 4 corners.

Soon R3 will be on EVO Mfgr hi clearance long arms and a set of King IBP coilovers. Thank you Santa...

Will snap some pictures  this week of the ORO sway bar set up then after  Christmas the new  suspension....

Curious as to why you went to Evo if you've had such a great experience with MC?

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The only thing about a Yj that's reliable is its mechanic.

Joey to Mike- That's more like it! Never done.....just outta money at the moment.

atjeep-Every time a YJ passes inspection, an angel gets it's wings.
R3
Offline
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*
Posts: 554
« Reply #114 on: December 07, 2018, 02:49:48 PM »

 Great question. Thumbs Up
Initial build I had done a bunch of research on bolt in kits diregarding the "Long Arm" systems. Thru my own ignorance I did not take into account suspension geometry and the effects on drivability Duh. I can from the  Leaf spring Jeep world before coming to the dark side JKURR.  Metal Cloak fit the bill very well. It gave me the lift without the sag and harsh ride, technology used I liked and understood  The Jeep preforms  great  but requires some attention to drive on the road  if the road is  rough, and or windy. A common issue with the JKU. For a bolt on kit Metal Cloak did a great job for the price point. Their service  Factor direct was first rate and their equipment is holding up very well after 23,000 miles.

 I was looking to further improve the ride, Can I get a cadillac like ride and off road performance?  Well it turns out yes. Had some long discussions with a local fab shop,  Chaos. Learned a lot in a very short time.   Had a couple of rides in their long arm built rigs and all I can say is wow same rig same power plant  new world of handling. Now the bad part, the custom system was a re-mortgage the house cost point Big Eyes making for a untenable direction.  Crying

So I studied the system they built, looked at components and chatted with  designers before settling on a system that can fit into my budget yet give me the performance I was looking for.  Ride quality is the goal.  My body has had a tough life and the OEM parts are begining to wear out. Last I looked  NAPA did not carry any new parts for a 1960 Rob and I love wheeling this new stylel rig. So how do I make it better?.  Riding in and driving a well set up long travel coil over rig  really opened my eyes to what is possible and within reason fits loosely around my budget. 

Over the course of several weeks of discussions and research I could have gone  a variety of ways  but I wanted the arms tucked up in the frame not hanging down to be used as sliders on rocks. With my luck I would bend the  crap out of one and then have to limp out to fix. I also wanted a rugged greasable joint that I did not have to take apart to lube.  Chaos had several rigs in the shop with Teraflex Evo and their own designs so we could walk and talk thru the pros and cons. Ak spent  several long hours  chatting with me showing me the various  systems explaining in great engineering and racing detail how they worked and th advatages and disadvantages of each. Staying true to my goal of a smooth on and off road ride  the selecting came down to either Teraflex or Evo. Teraflex was a bit cheaper and Evo tucked up better. I am choosing to weld on the Evo kit  then apply a set of King Coilovers  to get the ride quality I am looking for not skimping on the performance side of the house either. The set up is not cheap but I have noticed that more than a fe wof us have spent some coin on our rigs...

Before you ask, No I am not racing or planning to race this rig.  Over built for touring and wheeling? Maybe but I most likely will not have to replace or service the shocks for a very long time....

As for the shop, the owner made me feel right at home as well as the staff.  They are a layed back group with a passion for off road and going fast.  They respected  that I am an old guy and looking for comfort to continue to run off road as well as keep the Jeep as a DD.  The suspension I am go toward is much more a taylored system rather than a bolt on kit. The difficult part will be tuning the shocks but that comes with the  install price.  I have no plans to trailer my rig ever.  But I might be in the market for a POS to commute in if I go back to work up town.

Sorry for the late reply  been a busy day  here saving the fleet.

Cheers
Rob.

Logged

Cheers
RRR
17 JKURR
4.5 Metal cloak
37 BFG ATs
Dynatrac, PSC, Barnes, Ried, RCV....
next?

"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
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