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July 17, 2018, 12:14:02 PM

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VA6489
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« Reply #105 on: June 26, 2018, 06:56:30 AM »

Sorry miss understood... Yes the 17/18 there are a few things to upgrade.
Cheers

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

No worries. Iím just trying to figure out what flaws you see with stock. Of course there are upgrades to make on any Jeep but if Iím going to buy a vehicle, pull off the lot and immediately drive it onto a trail to wheel it.... thereís only one vehicle Iíd do that in stock and that the wrangler (maybe a couple other but they are out of my price range). Saying there were short cuts taken because stock parts donít like having parts run on them that they werenít designed to run is pretty unfair. Even Hummers didnít come stock with a snorkel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stock the Rubicon is a pretty good vehicel from the factory, but as ususal the OEM  takes some liberties with production and is constrained by  the green eyeshade monsters.
Some of the things I have found to be short of the mark:

Factory Ball joints. The wear material is Plastic, from day one my Rubicon wandered all of the road. Dealer replaced  right side Ball joints at no charge but not the left 4000 miles on my NEW Jeep at this point. The left were "within tollerance" . Another 500 miles later they were no longer within tollerance and needed replacing.  I finially replaced them with Dynatrack Ball joints the wandering issues were contained.  Factory Ball joints  are worthless with stock tires and rims.

Brakes on this 5000# unit were spongy from Day one. There is a lot of pedal travel and not a very secure feeling that the rig will stop well. Again this is in stock trim. This was addressed when I replaced the Ball joints with a set of  four corner Big Brake  rotors from Dyna track. The rig stops on a dime now.

Tie rod... guess it is Ok for a mall crawler but  I can see it deflect on heavy load and the tie rod ends  are built the same way the ball joints are plastic lined.  Replaced these with a Metal Cloak  tie rod  with 1 ton ends.
Drag link is the same as the tie rod flexible and joints are crap.  Replaced that with the Metal cloak drag link that comes withthe game changer 4.5 inch lift kit.

Under hood temps are high and the silly little vents  on the hood  are there for show. Cut the back out of the vent and now it at least lets heat out.
To you note on the snorkle, Clean fresh air is always desirable for good engine performance. The down side in a rig  like a Jeep is  water intrusion. There are many cases of  hydro lock and ruined motors. So how to get better cool air  into the little engine and retain some degree of water protection? Move the air intake outside of the engine compartment.  I went back and forth on the snorkle, but it has benifits or moving the air intake up more toward cleaner air. The kit I installed  I noticed a seat of the pants  improvment  in performance " less throttle input for the same output" .

Steering box.... Bill  relayed his comments on breaking his box... not stock config got it. did some research and did find that this is an issue off roading without huge tires and lifts. Enough so that it warrented in my mind to replace with something more bullet proof.  PSC  gear  fixed this issue.  No need for  hydraulic cylinders a good stout box and an attitude of  "lets not do stupid things" for this build is build.

Spare tire carrier, know issues with the tailgate.... Stock tires not just over sized.... smittybilt spare tire carrier  that is frame mounted solved that problem.

Steering knuckles... This is a Dana 44  front end and on the Recon it gets beefed up, but they still put the D30 knuckles on it? WTF? I have 20k mile on R3 and the front wheels have a bunch of negitive camber. Yes I am running  BFG 37s ( really 35.5) and light Fuel wheels most of the miles  have been on road.... the off road has been slow and deliberate yet these knuckles are bent....... Cheap move on FCA to save a dollar...

I replaced the Drive shafts  due to articulation  achieve with the MC 4.5 inch lift... Shafts are fine but how do you rebuild that on the trail if you break it?

Now before you  fire back with  your comments,

Back a few years ago  I modified several of my F250 pickups. 69-72 vintage Dana 44HD axles up front  with Bigger tires 33-36inch  on 16.6 inch rims. And ran them everywhere to include attachments like a 7ft wide snow plow. I was never concerned about the suspension or steering gear. I off roaded those rigs much harder than you guys in the goats do to include mud slinging events.  Funny the problems I had were operator induced not equipment malfunctions.


So I did have a goal in mind when building my Jeep. I wanted a bullet proof trail rig that I can drive everyday.  I am a technical driver, slow is good slower is better and there are somethings  that my rig is not equiped to do. Yes like all things it has limitations. I  do not have the deep pockets that some do to be able to go thru iteration after iteration after iteration of a build to produce a final product. That is very expensive process and I don't have a second income that can support that. So my goal was as stated and I researched equipment and talked to suppliers before  going forward.  Going thru FCA for parts  was not a cost effective option and did not provide the quality  and performance I was looking for. I hope this answers your and Kens questions on my initial comments.  

I am very happy with my little red lego block and the off road performance is amazing to me much more capable than anything I had driven to date.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 09:50:59 AM by VA6489 »

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Cheers
RRR

"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
JKrazy
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Posts: 480
« Reply #106 on: June 26, 2018, 09:34:45 AM »

Sorry miss understood... Yes the 17/18 there are a few things to upgrade.
Cheers

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

No worries. Iím just trying to figure out what flaws you see with stock. Of course there are upgrades to make on any Jeep but if Iím going to buy a vehicle, pull off the lot and immediately drive it onto a trail to wheel it.... thereís only one vehicle Iíd do that in stock and that the wrangler (maybe a couple other but they are out of my price range). Saying there were short cuts taken because stock parts donít like having parts run on them that they werenít designed to run is pretty unfair. Even Hummers didnít come stock with a snorkel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stock the Rubicon is a pretty good vehicel from the factory, but as ususall the OEM  takes some liberties with production and is constrained by  the green eyeshade monsters.
Some of the things I have found to be short of the mark:
Factory Ball joints. The wear material is Plastic, from day one my Rubicon wandered all of the road. Dealer replaced  right side Ball joints at no charge but not the left 4000 miles on my NEW Jeep at this point. The left were "within tollerance" . Another 500 mile slater they were no longer within tollerance and needed replacing.  I finially replaced them with Dynatrack Ball joints the wandering issues were contained.  Factory Ball joints  are worthless with stock tires and rims.
Brakes on this 5000# unit were spongy from Day one. There is a lot of pedal travel and not a very secure feeling that the rig will stop well. Again this is in stock trim. This was addressed when I replaced the Ball joints with a set of  four corner Big Brake  rotors from Dyna track. The rig stops on a dime now.

Tie rod... guess it is Ok for a mall crawler but  I can see it deflect on heavy load and the tie rod ends  are built the same way the ball joints are plastic lined.  Replaced these with a Metal Cloak  tie rod  with 1 ton ends.
Drag link is the same as the tie rod flexible and joints are crap.  Replacedthat with the Metal cloak drag link that comes withthe game changer 4.5 inch lift kit.

Under hood temps are high and the silly little vents  on the hood  are there for show. Cut the back out of the vent and now it at least lets heat out.
To you note on the snorkle, Clean fresh air is always desirable for good engine performance. The down side in a rig  like a Jeep is  water intrusion. There are many cases of  hydro lock and ruined motors. So how to get better  cool air  into the little engine and retain some degree of water protection. Move the air intake outside of the engine compartment.  I went back and forth on the snorkle, but it has benifits or moving the air intake up more toward cleaner air. The kit I installed  I noticed a seat of the pants  improvment  in performance " less throttle input for the same output" .

Steering box.... Bill  relayed his comments on breaking his box... not stock config got it. did some research and did find that this is an issue off roading without huge tires and lifts. Enough so that it warnted in my mind to replace with something more bullet proof.  PSC  gear  fixed this issue.  No need for  hydraulic cylinders a good stout box and an attitude of  "lets not do stupid things" for this build is build.

Spare tire carrier, know issues withthe tailgate.... Stock tires not just over sized.... smittybilt spare tire carrier  that is frame mounted solved that problem.

Steerign knuckles... This is a Dana 44  front end and on the Recon it gets beefed up, but they still put the D30 knuckles on it? WTF? I have 20k mile on R3 and the front wheels have a bunch of negitive camber. Yes I am running  BFG 37s ( really 35.5) and light Fuel wheels most of the miles  have been on road.... the off road has been slow and deliberate yet these knuckles are bent....... Cheap move on FCA to save a dollar...

I replaced teh Drive shafts  due to articulation  achieve withthe MC 4.5 inch lift... Shafts are fine but how do you rebuild that on the trail if you break it?

Now before you  fire back with  your comments,

Back  a few years ago  I modified several of my F250 pickups. 69-72 vintage Dana 44HD axles up front  with Bigger tires 33-36inch  on 16.6 inch rims. And ran them everywhere to include attachments like a 7ft wide snow plow. I was never concerned about the suspension or steering gear. I off roaded those rigs much harder than you guys in the goats do to include mud slinging events.  Funy the problems I had were operator induced not equipment malfunctions.


So I did have a goal in mind when building my Jeep. I wanted a bullet proof trail rig that I can drive everyday.  I am a technical driver, slwo is good slower is better and there are some thign  that my rig is not equiped to do. Yes liek all things it has limitations. I  do not have the deep pockets that some do to be able to go thru iteration after iteration after iteration of a build to produce  a final product. That is very expensive process and I don't have a second income that can support that. So my goal was as stated and I researched equipment and talked to suppliers before  going forward.  Going thru FCA for parts  was not a cost effective option and did not provide the quality  and performance I was looking for. I hope this answers your and Kens questions on my initial comments.  

I am very happy with my little red lego blockand the off road performance is amazing to me much more capable than anything I had driven to date.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


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KensHardware
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Posts: 144
« Reply #107 on: June 26, 2018, 11:33:18 AM »

Sorry miss understood... Yes the 17/18 there are a few things to upgrade.
Cheers

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

No worries. Iím just trying to figure out what flaws you see with stock. Of course there are upgrades to make on any Jeep but if Iím going to buy a vehicle, pull off the lot and immediately drive it onto a trail to wheel it.... thereís only one vehicle Iíd do that in stock and that the wrangler (maybe a couple other but they are out of my price range). Saying there were short cuts taken because stock parts donít like having parts run on them that they werenít designed to run is pretty unfair. Even Hummers didnít come stock with a snorkel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stock the Rubicon is a pretty good vehicel from the factory, but as ususal the OEM  takes some liberties with production and is constrained by  the green eyeshade monsters.
Some of the things I have found to be short of the mark:

Factory Ball joints. The wear material is Plastic, from day one my Rubicon wandered all of the road. Dealer replaced  right side Ball joints at no charge but not the left 4000 miles on my NEW Jeep at this point. The left were "within tollerance" . Another 500 miles later they were no longer within tollerance and needed replacing.  I finially replaced them with Dynatrack Ball joints the wandering issues were contained.  Factory Ball joints  are worthless with stock tires and rims.

Brakes on this 5000# unit were spongy from Day one. There is a lot of pedal travel and not a very secure feeling that the rig will stop well. Again this is in stock trim. This was addressed when I replaced the Ball joints with a set of  four corner Big Brake  rotors from Dyna track. The rig stops on a dime now.

Tie rod... guess it is Ok for a mall crawler but  I can see it deflect on heavy load and the tie rod ends  are built the same way the ball joints are plastic lined.  Replaced these with a Metal Cloak  tie rod  with 1 ton ends.
Drag link is the same as the tie rod flexible and joints are crap.  Replaced that with the Metal cloak drag link that comes withthe game changer 4.5 inch lift kit.

Under hood temps are high and the silly little vents  on the hood  are there for show. Cut the back out of the vent and now it at least lets heat out.
To you note on the snorkle, Clean fresh air is always desirable for good engine performance. The down side in a rig  like a Jeep is  water intrusion. There are many cases of  hydro lock and ruined motors. So how to get better cool air  into the little engine and retain some degree of water protection? Move the air intake outside of the engine compartment.  I went back and forth on the snorkle, but it has benifits or moving the air intake up more toward cleaner air. The kit I installed  I noticed a seat of the pants  improvment  in performance " less throttle input for the same output" .

Steering box.... Bill  relayed his comments on breaking his box... not stock config got it. did some research and did find that this is an issue off roading without huge tires and lifts. Enough so that it warrented in my mind to replace with something more bullet proof.  PSC  gear  fixed this issue.  No need for  hydraulic cylinders a good stout box and an attitude of  "lets not do stupid things" for this build is build.

Spare tire carrier, know issues with the tailgate.... Stock tires not just over sized.... smittybilt spare tire carrier  that is frame mounted solved that problem.

Steering knuckles... This is a Dana 44  front end and on the Recon it gets beefed up, but they still put the D30 knuckles on it? WTF? I have 20k mile on R3 and the front wheels have a bunch of negitive camber. Yes I am running  BFG 37s ( really 35.5) and light Fuel wheels most of the miles  have been on road.... the off road has been slow and deliberate yet these knuckles are bent....... Cheap move on FCA to save a dollar...

I replaced the Drive shafts  due to articulation  achieve with the MC 4.5 inch lift... Shafts are fine but how do you rebuild that on the trail if you break it?

Now before you  fire back with  your comments,

Back a few years ago  I modified several of my F250 pickups. 69-72 vintage Dana 44HD axles up front  with Bigger tires 33-36inch  on 16.6 inch rims. And ran them everywhere to include attachments like a 7ft wide snow plow. I was never concerned about the suspension or steering gear. I off roaded those rigs much harder than you guys in the goats do to include mud slinging events.  Funny the problems I had were operator induced not equipment malfunctions.


So I did have a goal in mind when building my Jeep. I wanted a bullet proof trail rig that I can drive everyday.  I am a technical driver, slow is good slower is better and there are somethings  that my rig is not equiped to do. Yes like all things it has limitations. I  do not have the deep pockets that some do to be able to go thru iteration after iteration after iteration of a build to produce a final product. That is very expensive process and I don't have a second income that can support that. So my goal was as stated and I researched equipment and talked to suppliers before  going forward.  Going thru FCA for parts  was not a cost effective option and did not provide the quality  and performance I was looking for. I hope this answers your and Kens questions on my initial comments.  

I am very happy with my little red lego block and the off road performance is amazing to me much more capable than anything I had driven to date.
Yeah I was just confused if you were talking about a JL or JK that was it. That's a ton of information man.

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VA6489
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Member 2018 VA4WD/BRC
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Posts: 366
« Reply #108 on: June 26, 2018, 12:52:15 PM »

Just trying to help brother. I know the JL have a new front axle with aluminum knuckles... The JK line still has the Dana 30/44 axles.

Cheers

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Cheers
RRR

"Keep calm and carry on, No Thanks! I would rather raise hell and change the world."
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